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Add 10micron Mounts To List Of Supported ScopeTypes (Addressing Slew Rate Issue With Current LX200 Protocol - User Reports Astro-Physics Setting Works Well!)

Stefan R Benz

August 02, 2018 20:23

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Hello SkySafari team,

I am using SkySafari 6 Pro on my iPad with my 10micron GM3000 mount with good success, using the Meade LX200 protocol.
GoTo works like a charm.

Unfortunately I cannot get the slew rate buttons to work properly.
What do the four presets correspond to?

Unfortunately presets 1 and 2 are super slow for, too slow to be used, and 3 and 4 are way too fast.
So I still need my hand control...

In addition, I can limit the slew rate in the mount control to 5°/s for safety reasons, but SkySafari ignores that setting and sets the mount in presets 3 and 4 to much higher speeds than 5°/s, which is dangerous.

I searched the handbook of SkySafari but I could not find additional info.
Maybe you can help me here.

Thanks
Stefan

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24 comments

• 0
  
  Bill Tschumy August 02, 2018 20:55

  Stefan,

  This must be something about how the 10micron interprets the Meade slew rate commands.  Different mounts have different granularity in the slew rate.  We just pick 4 evenly divided ones.  So if the mount has 10 different rates, we might choose 1, 3, 6 & 9.

  For Meade specifically we send:

  Rate 1 - Guiding Rate:   ":RG#"

  Rate 2 - Centering Rate:   ":RC#"

  Rate 3 - Finding Rate:   ":RM#"

  Rate 4 - Slewing Rate:   ":RS#"

  This works fine on try Meade scopes.  The 10micron mount must be interpreting them differently.  You could ask 10micron about this.

   

   

   

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz August 03, 2018 04:49

  Bill,

  thanks for the super quick response, will get in contact with 10micron.

  Stefan

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz August 14, 2018 08:42

  Hello Bill,

  I managed to investigate some details.

  The problem is obviously related to the fact that 10micron mounts are super performant.

  As you wrote:
  Rate 1 - Guiding Rate: ":RG#" sets the slew rate to the slowest possible
  Rate 2 - Centering Rate: ":RC#" sets the slew rate to the 2nd slowest
  Rate 3 - Finding Rate: ":RM#" sets the slew rate to the 2nd fastest
  Rate 4 - Slewing Rate: ":RS#" sets the slew rate to the fastest

  For a 10micron mount the slowest slew rate possible is 0.15x (relates to 2.25"/sec), the 2nd slowest 0.25x (3.75"/sec).
  The fastest slew rate is 10 degrees per second (2400x), the 2nd fastest 4 degrees per second (960x).

  So, the commands sent by Sky Safari are interpreted correctly, but unfortunately this does not result in settings that are really useful.

  Fortunately there is another possibility, as 10micron extended the LX200 command set to accommodate for this.

  Instead of ":RS#" Sky Safari would need to send the command ":RSn#", with n being equal to 0, 1 or 2.
  0 would set a slew rate of 1200x, 1 corresponds to 900x and 2 to 600x.

  The same accounts similarly to the other commands.
  You find this in 10micron's command protocol (https://www.inova-ccd.fr/download/Z.%20other/10Micron/Tools/10Micron%20command%20protocol/command-protocol-v2.13.2.pdf), pages 24 and 25.

  Useful settings for a 10u mount would be (they would work greatly for me):

  Rate 1 - Guiding Rate: ":RG1#" would set the slew rate to 1x
  Rate 2 - Centering Rate: ":RC0#" would set the slew rate to 16x
  Rate 3 - Finding Rate: ":RC1#" would set the slew rate to 64x
  Rate 4 - Slewing Rate: ":RS2#" would set the slew rate to 600x (2.5 degrees/sec)

  Is this something that could be implemented in Sky Safari?

  I see two possibilities:
  - add "10micron" to the list of scope types, implementing the commands above
  - make the rate values editable to the user (maybe this will become too complicated)

  Thanks in advance for looking into this.

  Clear skies!
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Bill Tschumy August 14, 2018 13:49

  As you say, in order to implement this we would need to have the 10micron listed as a specific scope type so we would know we are talking to it.

  This is a possibility, but I don't think we will get to it in the next couple of months.  I will talk to the rest of the development team.  Until then you will have to use the hand controller to slew the mount.

• 1
  
  Stefan R Benz August 14, 2018 14:39

  Hi Bill,

  thanks again for looking into this.

  Using Sky Safari for the GoTo and then the hand controller for centering slews is not really an ideal user interface, so I will keep my fingers crossed that the development team approves the proposal above.

  Thanks

  Stefan

• 0
  
  Poison September 15, 2018 10:25

  I also own a 10Micron, have you tried the Meade LX600-850 instead of the LX200?

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz September 15, 2018 12:15

  No, I haven't.
  What will be the difference?

• 0
  
  Poison September 15, 2018 16:07

  I just guess, as you wrote "Fortunately there is another possibility, as 10micron extended the LX200 command set to accommodate for this.".

  Maybe the LX600-850 protocol is already extended compared to the "old" LX200 and works better with the 10Micro? 

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz September 16, 2018 09:39

  Hi Poison,

  this would only be the case, if the SkySafari team had modified the LX200 slew rate settings commands for the LX600-850 in a similar way as I had written above.
  Have you tested it yourself, does it work?

  I cannot test it currently, as I am away from the observatory.

  Thanks for the hint!
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz September 19, 2018 07:35

  Hi Bill,

  any news from the development team?
  Do you intend to add 10micron as an additional scope to the existing list of already ~50 scopes?

  This would be highly welcome!

  As an alternative you could offer a possibility for the user to edit his/her own LX200 commands when pushing rate buttons 1 though 4?

  Thanks

  Stefan

• 0
  
  Poison September 19, 2018 08:47

  I tried last night and unfortunately it seems to be the same commands as used in LX200 protocol. :(

• 0
  
  Bill Tschumy September 19, 2018 13:54

  We don't have immediate plans to add the 10 Micron but it might happen down the road.  Right now we are somewhat swamped with other issues.  Feel free to keep reminding us though.

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz January 06, 2019 07:48

  Bill and team,

  happy New Year to all of you!

  As promised in September, here a quick reminder on this issue.
  Have you had the chance to look into this, after the "swamp" is over (hopefully)?

  Thanks and cheers
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Bill Tschumy January 07, 2019 17:07

  There has been no progress on this and there is no chance of it until at least the second half of 2019.  Sorry.

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz January 13, 2019 08:48

  Oh, that's a pity.
  Is this really so much effort?

  Can I be of help?
  I would be happy to support in any way possible.

  Thanks
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Poison January 13, 2019 09:28

  From my point of view it isn't *that* much effort:

  Copy & rename the LX-200 driver to 10Micron and add the values as suggested.

  I've found the 10Micron Command Protocol from firmware 2.13.2, just follow the link.

  All the best,

  Oliver

• 0
  
  Poison January 13, 2019 09:29

  Here's the link: https://www.inova-ccd.fr/download/Z.%20other/10Micron/Tools/10Micron%20command%20protocol/command-protocol-v2.13.2.pdf

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz January 14, 2019 19:48

  One other, maybe even easier way, would be to add a "custom scope", and make the four buttons configurable by the user, in a way that one could assign to each of them that LX200 command that would be sent to the mount.
  
  Thanks
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Poison January 19, 2019 12:16

  Hi Stefan,

  I did a little internet research and it seems that the Astro-Physics GTO use (almost) the same commands as the 10Micron does.

  It seems to use all the commands you suggested to Bill (page 3):

  http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/protocol-D.pdf

   

  However, I can't test it right now, but maybe you can?

  Thanks

  Oliver

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz January 22, 2019 21:36

  Hi Oliver,

  thanks for the note.

  The point though is not so much the protocol used, this is usually LX200 and derivates, but the specific LX200 command that SkySafari sends to the mound when pushing one of the buttons. The standard commands used work for many mounts, but not for 10micron, unfortunately.
  Only if the commands used for the Astro-Physics setting in SkySafari are the same as needed for 10micron, then this would work.
  But this is something only Bill can answer, I suppose...

  Cheers

  Stefan

• 0
  
  Bill Tschumy January 22, 2019 21:43

  I believe that the 10 Micron uses the Meade command set.  You can try using that.

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz January 23, 2019 19:56

  Hi Bill,

  thanks for the advice.
  Will give the Meade command set a try the next time I am at the observatory.

  Cheers

  Stefan

• 0
  
  Stefan R Benz February 19, 2019 06:47

  Hello all,

  quick update:
  Last weekend I went to the observatory and "played" with some settings in SkySafari. None of the many, many Meade presets were satisfactory, but it turned out that the Astro-Physics setting worked quite well.
  So I will stick to that. Thanks again, Oliver!

  Best
  Stefan

• 0
  
  Cmorrie November 07, 2019 18:37

  Hi Bill, 

  Having been a long time Celestron mount and Sky Safari user here in New Zealand, I have decided to step up several levels in mount quality and have just ordered a 10Micron GM1000HPS mount, so I would add to the request for a dedicated 10Micron scope type in Sky Safari. Do you have an update on possible timing for this, I see that you previously mentioned no chance until at least 2nd half 2019.

  Thanks and Regards,
  Chris Morriss