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[Database]* Build Data File Feature Not Working In SNP8

Can anyone on this forum build ANY kind of user-database using ANY release of SNP8? Of particular interest is a 13,500 object "NGC-IC_Example_Database" prepared by Wolfgang Steinicke in 2000 and subsequently posted by Keiron Smith in 2011 as an SNP documentation resource for users who wish to create their own star databases.
  https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/articles/231534427-How-do-I-make-my-own-databases-
  https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/215962047/NGC-IC_Example_Database.zip

In 2017 SNP user Denis Boucher commented on Keiron Smith's post with his own affirmation that the "NGC-IC_Example_Database" was indeed a practical "template" for building modest-size star databases, and he further attested that with SN7 he could compile such databases using the "FILE > Build Data File" option on the SNP main-menu .

In late 2019 I posted a comment on the Keiron Smith article that the "Build Data File" function appeared to be broken in SNP8, at least with respect to input derived from "NGC-IC_Example_Database". There was no SCC response to my post, BUT about a year later (Feb 2021) another SN8 user (Frank Concannon) posted his own anguished agreement with my post. FrankC did receive an encouraging "pledge" from Keiron Smith that "SN developers would review the issue" for the next SN8 update, but Mr. Smith did not commit as to whether or when such an update would actually be released.

So as FrankC and I (and who knows how many other SNP8 users with interest in user-databases) "take a number and wait in the bar" for some material progress in the situation I thought I should try the community forum for any additional info or insight on current state of the "Build Data File" compiler in SNP8. Thanks in advance for ANY response ... James Heflin (jaheflin@hotmail.com)

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12 comments

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    Keiron Smith Official comment

    DevOps reference: https://starrynight.unfuddle.com/a#/projects/7957/tickets/by_number/10343

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    Keiron Smith

    Apologies, James, this feature does indeed appear to be broken at this time in SN8.

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    Dlucas

    James -- and Keiron -- and other SNP users... To me, this would be a great feature to repair in an update to SN8.2. It's one of the fundamental distinctives that has set SNP apart from competitors (the fact that SNP is professional and expandable). We understand that this is a season of smoothing out the ripples in Sky Safari 7. But as soon as that smooths out, we would strongly request that developers give some love to the Windows platform dynamic equivalent -- which defaults to SNP -- especially since Windows is THE primary platform for ASCOM and therefore the primary user platform for virtually all high-level amateur (and many professional) astronomy projects. So we're lobbying for a version 8.2 that fixes this database breakage. Can't wait.

    Thanks for considering.

    Doug

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    GRSmith

    The nice thing about the "Build Data File" function is that it will give you an error attempting to explain what's wrong with the file it's attempting to build from.  I won't go into all the screwing around that helped me figure out the problem... but the upshot is that if I add an "epoch" column to the NGC-IC Example Database.txt file (at least, the file I have) SNP8 will gladly "compile" all 13,000-plus objects.  See image below.

    It would be great if anyone can confirm that this works for them too.  Also, I really have no idea what I SHOULD be inserting for "epoch".  I tried a JD and I also tried dates in the form (once-upon-a-time) accepted by asteroids.txt... i.e. 20220215.  Neither of these formats was accepted.

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    Dlucas

    Gary, this is pretty much just the most awesome thing ever. I'm on the edge of my seat to try this out and figure out all the implications.

    Could you, when you have a moment, for example, give us a couple of use cases for this capability please? It's so cool - and it indeed seems to set SNP8 apart. I just ... need to make sure I understand how to use it!

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    GRSmith

    Sorry to have been dense on this Dlucas.  I get it now.  There is a not-bad description on using this functionality in the SNP manual.  Here's the pertinent section (below).  I've marked it up a bit.  This section doesn't elaborate on the necessary content and format of TXT files, like NGC-IC Example Database.txt.  But, the text file itself is pretty well commented.  Note that all "comments" are preceded by double forward-slashes.  Build Data File ignores these lines.  They are there to aid in our understanding of the file format.  The listing of all the sky objects described in NGC-IC Example Database.txt begins at line number 237... one line per sky object.

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    Dlucas

    This is super-helpful, Gary. I'm starting to comprehend. But since Starry Night Pro's database is already seemingly so comprehensive, even after reading the above, I'm still having a hard time imagining that I would have an entire spreadsheet full of things to add. Would this data file consist of newly-discovered comets? ... or maybe newly-launched satellites? Is that the sort of thing you're thinking?

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    GRSmith

    My original interest in the Build Data File function was actually misguided.  I was in search of a way to enter multiple new ASTEROID objects, INCLUDING orbital parameters.  We used to be able to do that by simply adding objects to the file asteroids.txt (presently located inside C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Simulation Curriculum\Starry Night 8 Prefs\Sky Data).  But presently, entering new objects in that file produces some really munged-up results.  New objects, yes.  But not objects possessing the orbital parameters you entered. 

    I assume the required format for data in asteroids.txt has also changed.  But I haven't made similar progress in understanding what that new format is.  SNP doesn't produce errors for problems in that file... at least, not on-screen errors.

    Perhaps there's an error log somewhere... hmmm...

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    Dlucas

    Oh -- ok. So for right now, we're adding asteroids one at a time, right? ...using the way I entered objects in that video I did? I'm starting to understand. 

     

    So if this approach won't work for asteroids (currently), what might we do with it? In other words, yes - it's an outstandingly cool feature. I'm still trying to get my arms around its use case.

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    GRSmith

    Correct.  One at a time, as you demonstrated so well.  Unfortunately, that's the only way I see while asteroids.txt parsing remains somewhat broken.

    As for what can be done with Build Data File functionality... what I am VERY belatedly understanding... (and please correct me if I am mistaken)... is that, when you can only specify locations with RA and dec you are automatically talking about distant objects that remain fairly fixed on the celestial sphere... objects whose apparent motion is due (almost entirely) to Earth's movement both within its solar orbit and around it's own axis of rotation.

    Whereas, if your interest is asteroids, comets, satellites, etc... items with actual orbital parameter... Build Data File cannot help you.

     

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    Dlucas

    Gary, I think you're right. Specifying RA and Dec is equivalent to painting an object on the ceiling of your living room. It's always positioned exactly the same in the celestial sphere. So ... your conclusion, unfortunately, makes sense.

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    Celestialuniverse1500

    Thank you GRSmith for your assistance in clearing up the "epoch" dilemma. I too had found this enigma puzzling. My next confusion is that when I created my HR Catalogue, in the AuxillaryLabel (AuxillaryLabel<TAB>2<TAB>Spectral Type), this information didplay on either SNPP7 or SNP8.  Could this also be a "bug" or is my data not right?

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