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Problems Aligning Celestron Evolution WiFi + StarSense (Solution: Update Your Mount And HC Firmware Using The Latest Celestron CFM Updater And Everything Should Work - Read On!)

Joseph Luciani

August 27, 2018 13:21

Answered

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Total frustration, please help!

History first:

2 night ago I was having complete success doing manual, three-star alignments with my Evolution WiFi using SkySafari 6 Pro, but couldn’t get close enough to target objects (at least 3-5 degrees off target). Tried numerous calibrations, nothing helped.

Celestron advised me to go to the Starsense HC and restore the Starsense Camera (i.e., reset AIS camera). Also, Celestron said that my trying to calibrate on Polaris was a problem.

Yesterday, I reset AIS Camera and also, for good measure, on the Starsense HC I restored defaults (don’t know if this was a mistake). After the restore, I reset the time zone to -5 (Eastern United States) and daylight savings. (Note: I didn’t do anything with the original Evo HC, should I have checked the time zone, etc. on that HC?)

Last night, I could not achieve a manual, three-star alignment (one exception is noted below). Typically, I would get two stars to align and then get a failure notice, i.e., “Alignment pointing error too large, please try another alignment.” I tried this both in Skysafari and Skyportal—same results. After numerous other attempts (perhaps 15 tries), Skysafari froze (wheel kept spinning). Then, went to Skyportal and somehow managed to get three of three stars aligned!!! I pressed “done.” After all this frustration, I decided to see if, in fact, I had finally achieved any kind of substantial alignment. I targeted Polaris on my iPad, hit Go-To, and wound up pointing more toward Cassiopeia rather than Polaris!!!

I simply can’t imagine what else to do….

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199 comments

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  Bill Tschumy February 09, 2019 20:46

  On iOS, deleting the app *will* delete this file.  On Android it won't.  I don't recall which you are using.

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  Joseph Luciani February 09, 2019 21:11

  Bill,

  To be clear, are you saying to delete SkySafari from my iPad and then re-installing it?

  Also: Last night at Celestron's suggestion I tried the following:

  1.) Connecting with HC / aligning with the StarSense disconnected. The alignment was successful as was the Go-to function.

  2.) Connecting / aligning with StarSense disconnected / using only the app to align / tried both 'Direct Connect,' and  'Access' / I was not able to slew the scope (control buttons did not function). I kept getting the Connection Failure error, i.e., "SkySafari 6 Pro can't make a wireless network connection to the scope."

  Well, at least I wasn't able to go far enough for the app to freeze.

  Does any of this add to the conversation?

   

  Thanks for following through with this,

  Joe

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  Conrad Sanders February 10, 2019 00:22

  Bill I am using IOS on a IPad.  So wouldn’t deleting the application and reinstalling it accomplish the same thing as deleting the Celestron.dat file?  And by the way, I have already tried that.

  The real bug is when I am trying to perform an Star Sense alignment and calibrate, the bug is causing the goofy coordinate to be generated and stored in that Celestron.dat file.

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  Bill Tschumy February 11, 2019 17:28

  Joseph,

  If you are one iOS, that deleting the app will delete the file.  However, you can delete the file using iTunes File Sharing without deleting the entire app.

  However, Conrad has said this doesn't solve the problem so there must be something else going on.  I will discuss this with Celestron.

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  Joseph Luciani February 11, 2019 18:48

  Thanks Bill,

  Just wanted to follow up with why, after disconnecting my StarSense Camera, was I unable to use the app? Do you think, even with StarSense disconnected, this is part of the same problem with the app? To reiterate: I got nothing but connections failures, also the buttons were dysfunctional (unable to more/slew the scope). Tried Direct Connect as well as Access connect, same issues. Waiting for Wil to call from Celestron. Hopefully, I haven't discovered yet another bug.

   

  Joe

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  Bill Tschumy February 11, 2019 20:14

  Joseph,

  This sounds like another bad Wi-Fi adapter.  You are not getting a good connection.  You will have to take this up with Celestron.

  Bill

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  Daniel Goodwin February 12, 2019 18:11

  Hey Joseph, Randy, and Conrad,

  Sorry to hear about your troubles with StarSense and SkyPortal/SkySafari. I work at Celestron and I have been doing my best to identify the causes of the issues you all are reporting. Two parts make this difficult. 1. The engineer that wrote most of this code no longer works here, and 2. It is hard to get it to replicate. I was able to do a lot of testing last week, with good results. I was able to replicate periodic issues with aligning the telescope during a manual StarSense alignment. And I also identified a few likely causes:

  1. As Bill already mentioned, the center calibration can be quite wrong, due to either centering the wrong star, or the plate-solving producing an erroneous result. This center calibration value is (currently, but wont be in the next app update) stored in the app rather than the camera. PLEASE check these numbers, and thank your Joseph for reporting your numbers. You will never be able to align with those calibration values. So deleting and re-installing app is currently a must for you.

  2. A J-Ness issue. The previous engineer wrote the entire thing using JNOW, when he should have been using J2000. This has been fixed and will be in the next update.

  3. Finishing up-and-right. Up-and-right is Celestron slang for centering every star on the same side of the gear backlash. The StarSense auto-alignment always finishes by slewing up-and-right before taking an image, and you should do the same thing during a manual alignment. I believe the StarSense hand-controller forces you to do this. But the app does not. The effect of up-and-right helping is based on how big your mount's backlash is.

  After I fixed my center-calibration and fixed the J-Ness issues, I was able to perform nearly 20 StarSense manual alignments without any issue. And I even verified 5 auto-alignments. I performed 10 calibrations and they always produced the same number. Gotos after each alignment were always near center of my 20mm eye-piece. So great results, and I hope that these fixes with fix everyone's issues as well.

  Sorry for the slow speed at getting this resolved. It has been raining every week here in Los Angeles for the past month, and will be raining again this week (so much for year-long sunny socal weather). But I am aiming for an app update before the end of this month, which will include some other additional features that we're still testing out.

  -Daniel

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  Conrad Sanders February 12, 2019 20:50

  Daniel,

  We have been dealing with a lot of snow last week here in the Twin Cities and I just got back from vacation so I have not been able to go back out and test with Sky Safari Pro using the built in WiFi on the Evolution mount.  All I know is the last time I went out, I used the internal Celestron WiFi and the Star Sense Hand Control and I was able to do a StarSense Auto Align, then a Calibrate by centering on a star and then a final re-alignment and I got no errors withoutout using Sky Safari.  I then used the SS hand control to go into Stars and then picked the same star that I calibrated on and the star was spot on and centered.

  I then disconnected the SS Hand Control and GPS Unit and cycled the power on the mount.  I then brought up Sky Safari Pro and connected successfully to the internal Celestron XX WiFi and did the first alignment, attempted a calibrate (sometimes this would work but not often) and then a final re-alignment and  I would get the message Alignment Failed, Alignment pointing error is too large in either case.

  So I am trying to figure out where the problem is?  I have not updated any firmware on the mount or the Star Sense Hand control since I have had the telescope for over a year.  I did have to send the mount in last summer for a repair but I was able to use Sky Safari Plus the remainder of the summer, fall and early winter.  When  I recently starting having this problem with Sky Safari Plus, I decided to upgrade to Sky Safari Pro to see if that would correct the error  and I had the exact same problem.

  I really don't understand how this could start happening unless maybe the cold weather here in Minnesota is effecting the equipment somehow but I used it all last winter so I am trying to understand how this could happen when nothing that I am aware of was changed in the hardware or firmware?  I also purchased SkyFi III from Bill's employer (for other reasons like laptop Wi-Fi connectivity) but have not actually gone outside to test it to rule out a hardware problem with the internal WiFi.

   

  I am willing to work with Bill and Celestron to try and resolve this problem so let me know what you need from me.

  Also I did find the Celstron.dat file on my Ipad and have not connected it to see what those goofy values were but wouldn't uninstalling the Sky Safari Plus/Pro accomplish the same thing since that file would get wiped out during the uninstall? When does the Celestron.dat file get created when you get a attempted or successful alignment?   I am assuming if the calibrate or final alignment fails that I get some goofy numbers in the Celstron.dat file?

  Conrad

   

  PS I would be willing to have a conference call with you and Bill to discuss this problem further if you want.

   

   

   

   

   

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  Conrad Sanders February 12, 2019 20:54

  Correction my last statement:

  All I know is the last time I went out, I used the internal Celestron WiFi and the Star Sense Hand Control.

  It should state:

  All I know is the last time I went out, I used the the Star Sense Hand Control.

   

   

  Conrad

   

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  Joseph Luciani February 12, 2019 21:43

  Bill, Daniel

  Thank you Daniel for your hard work trying to resolve this. I will immediately do the delete/install of the app. Bill, does anything that Daniel wrote change your opinion as to why I wasn't able to use SkySafari without StarSense to align? You felt I need a new WiFi module. Also, will Daniel inform us as to when (I assume it will be a CFM update, or will this be done on the app and require a delete/install) all the fixes will be published?

   

  Joe

   

   

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  Conrad Sanders February 12, 2019 21:51

  One thing I suppose could of happened is that there was an automatic update with the Sky Safari app(s) both Plus and Pro that broke something or an Apple IOS upgrade which I certainly could of done.

   

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 15:14

  This only gets worse! This morning I deleted SkySafari from my iPad and reinstalled it. Using the WiFi sent from Celestron I was not able to connect with either direct or access point. I then took out the WiFi module and "enabled" my mount's WiFi (to see if maybe that would work) same problems. The error was Connection Failure unable to connect..."

  Is the app dysfunctional at this point, is anyone else having this problem currently?

   

  Joe

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  Bill Tschumy February 13, 2019 16:42

  Joe,

  I don't think there is a problem with the app's connecting.  It is only the StarSense alignment that has a problem (and then only for a few folks).

  1. You did remember to rejoin the Celestron Wi-Fi network, right?

  2. Try rebooting your device

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 16:45

  Yes, to both suggestions. I'm going to go down and try all this again. The question remains, why there is no WiFi connection???

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 17:34

  I was able to do a Direct Connect, but not Access Point. Went over the settings numerous times...a mystery. I have a strong home WiFi signal...just doesn't make sense. 

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  Bill Tschumy February 13, 2019 17:38

  That is something to take up with Celestron.  I don't know why the SkyPortal module would be unable to join you home network.

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  Daniel Goodwin February 13, 2019 17:50

  Joseph,

  Sorry to hear about that. Sounds like you are having some serious WiFi issues. So both the older internal WiFi AND the new WiFi accessory are not allowing SkyPortal/SkySafari to connect to your mount? Please try with another device if you have one handy (I believe you mentioned that your wife has one too?). Our tech support team is normally pretty good at walking people through WiFi issues. I believe you spoke with Wil previously, correct? If you do eventually get it to connect, can you please verify that your StarSense center calibration reset to the default value of 640, 480 after you deleted and re-installed the app.

  Conrad,

  Thanks for your feedback. I believe, as Bill stated, that deleting the app will delete the file, and thus reset the center calibration. But based on what you stated, I would be curious to know what your calibration value was? Seems like it works for you up until after you calibrate it. So whenever you get a chance, could you read those values out? Once the weather gets better and you delete and re-install the app, run an alignment and then center calibrate. It will report the value it calculates, write this down, BUT do not accept the value. Then go to another star and calibrate on that, same as before, write it down BUT do not accept it. Finally go to a third star and do that all once again. All three reported center calibration values should be about the same (+/- 20 for both values). After that, let me know the values, and that will give me enough information to debug the issue. Thanks!

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  Conrad Sanders February 13, 2019 19:50

  Joe,

  I have not any issues with getting a direct WiFi connection using the internal WiFi on the Evolution Mount or the SkyFi III device from my iPad using SkySafari. I have never tried Access Point and have no reason to do so at this point.

  My isssue lately has always been getting a good calibrate and final alignment when using the Sky Safari products and Star Sense together.  To rule out a hardware problem on my internal WiFi, I will be trying to use the external SkyFi III device along with SkySafari Plus or Pro using my IPad to see if I get the same error.  If it does not work, then it’s some kind of software bug and it cannot be related in the internal Celestron WiFi.

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 20:22

  Much thanks Daniel,

  Yes, I did try with my iPhone and got the same results as my iPad. I deleted the SkySafari app on both devices and reinstalled it. My Calibration now reads 640 , 480. To reiterate: I was only able to establish a Direct Connect (with the mount enabled, and again with the mount disabled using the WiFi module sent from Celestron). I was not able to get access connect with either the mount or the WiFi module. I totally agree that my WiFi is not making a connection with my scope. Hard to believe that after a refurbished mount and a new WiFi module, I'm still unable to use my scope. I guess lightning can hit twice  :-) To be clear, I've tried every combination over and over, at this point I truly don't feel I'm doing anything wrong. And yes, Wil has been assisting me.

   

  Thank you for seeing this through,

  Joe

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  Daniel Goodwin February 13, 2019 20:28

  Oh your issue is exclusively with the access point mode? Ok well that's better than I thought. It can be an issue with your network's configuration. Are you using DHCP or are you manually configuring the IP address, mask, etc? (In the SkyPortal network configuration settings)

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 21:31

  Daniel,

  My network config may certainly be the problem. I went over these with Wil a long time ago and he walked me through it, but haven't checked since. I've deleted and re-loaded the app. I just tried to go to the 'communication' area to see about DHCP etc., however I could not open up the screen, ""WiFi Module Error; Unable to read configuration info from the Celestron WiFi module. Make sure it is in Direct connect (which it was) and that you iPad is joined to its network (which it was) and that you scope is not connected (which it wasn't)

  If you can get me into the screen, can you walk me through what the boxes are that I have to fill in, from what I recall with Wil,..., what's the "paraphrase,' ? Comething like SSiD? There was a DHCP button (is that supposed to be on or off). where do I find all these entries. Any help will be most appreciated, however, I have to get to the screen first before I can do anything. 

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  Daniel Goodwin February 13, 2019 22:42

  Hey Joseph,

  Use the new WiFi accessory and connect to it via direct-connect. Make sure the app can make a connection to the mount. Go to the Network Configuration menu and select the option to configure for access-point mode. There should not be an issue here, let me know if this fails.

  But once you're in, set the network name and password, AND select DHCP. Now change the switch position on the WiFi accessory to access-point mode. Wait several seconds and then make sure the center light is slow pulsing (this represents a valid connection to your WiFi network). Then connect your ipad to your WiFi network, and attempt to connect from SkyPortal (be sure to set the connection mode to access-point in SkyPortal/SkySafari's Network Configuration menu first).

  Let me know if there are any issues.

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  Joseph Luciani February 13, 2019 23:17

  Daniel,

  Yes, the problem is that I can't get into the screen to change the settings. I did what you said, but cannot get to that screen to input my WiFi home data

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  Daniel Goodwin February 13, 2019 23:20

  That is quite strange. Your new WiFi module does broadcast a three-hex-digit code, correct? (As in Celestron-XXX rather than Celestron-XX)

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  Conrad Sanders February 14, 2019 03:21

  Daniel or All:

  I did not delete Sky Safari Pro so I still have the Celestron.dat file.  I brought up Sky Safari Pro and I did just a connect (no connect and align) since I am indoors just trying to retrieve my calibration numbers.  I did find anything related to calibration in the Setup and Control Option in the Sky Safari Pro App once the mount was connected using the internal WiFi. 

  How did you guys get these values and provide them to Daniel or Bill?

  Do I actually have to be outside performing a Star Sense Auto Alignment to get these values?

  When I edited the Celestron.dat file, all I see if garbage characters so I am unable to provide these numbers.

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  Joseph Luciani February 14, 2019 16:15

  Daniel,

  I'm not sure why, but I had to try many trial-and-error attempts to set up access point, but I finally succeeded! At this point I'm crossing my fingers that what I've accomplished today will stay "put" and not lead to any more connection failures. Hope springs eternal, huh? Anyway, at this point, since I am now connected with access point and since my config numbers are in line, is there anything left for me to do at this point other than to take the scope out for a run?

   

  First optimism I've felt in a long time, thanks so much,

  Joe

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  Conrad Sanders February 14, 2019 17:03

  I know there has been a few discussions on WiFi issues in this topic but I was directed to this ticket because my problem might of been related to other similar issues that you all have been encountering.  I did open another ticket related to the 'Too Large' error message and I was directed here. Because the weather has not cooperated , I have not been out for a least 3 weeks when I had the initial issue Star Sense Auto Align issue using Sky Safari Plus/Pro and not being able to get a good calibrate and final alignment.  All of this WiFi information is good stuff to know for future reference but I believe my problem is not related to a WiFi issue.

  So I think it would be good to focus on the original issue with Stare Sense, Sky Safari and the 'Too Large' problem.  Is there anything I can do in the mean time like retrieving the numbers you are asking for from the celestron.dat file by connecting to the mount because I tried it last night from indoors, and i did no see any numbers like the others did.  If I have to wait for a good clear night and attach the Star Sense Camera and attempt another alignment, please let me know. 

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  Joseph Luciani February 14, 2019 18:12

  Conrad,

  I don't want to mess with my current working app, so I don't want to verify this by tinkering. But if memory serves me, I found the calibration number by going to Telescope Settings > Communication > (which was set to Direct not Access Point)  to the right of Communication you should see Direct Access with a >, tap this and you'll be brought to a communication screen, and somewhere in the middle of that screen I found the calibration numbers. I hope this helps, like I said, I think this is what I did, but after months of trying to get Access Point to work, I dare not fish around to verify the above.

   

  Joe  

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  Daniel Goodwin February 14, 2019 18:17

  Conrad,

  Make sure that the StarSense camera is plugged in to your mount when you are doing this process. The calibration values will appear in the Settings->Setup and Control->Alignment->Calibration Info. You only need to connect, no need to be outside, nor align.

  Joseph,

  Glad to hear things are working. I just spoke with Wil (from tech support) on the phone concerning your WiFi issues. I will look into any issues with how SkyPortal configures the access-point mode, to make this process more reliable, since it seems like it took you a many attempts before it worked for you. But sounds like you are good to go. Just make sure when you perform the calibration that the calibrated center reported to you is close to the calibrated center that the StarSense hand-controller reports. If they are not, don't accept the values, and try again. I would perform the calibration on several different stars and make sure that it calculates approximately the same value every time. Let me know if there are any issues with this process.

  I appreciated the feedback from all of you. We want to make the app experience as good as possible, so the feedback you all provided is quite valuable. Thank you!

  -Daniel

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  Conrad Sanders February 14, 2019 18:59

  Joe,

  Can I do this indoors without the Star Sense camera attached to be able to see this value once I connect to the mount?  I tried it last night indoors after I did a 'Connect' to the Evolution mount with Sky Safari tapping on that orange cog and could not find the value.