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How To Align A Fork-Mounted Celestron CPC Edge HD 11 + SkySafari 6 Pro + Celestron WiFi Module?

I cannot get Sky Safari to work because it is always at least 90 degrees or more out of sync with where my scope is actually pointed at it's index position. I have a celestron cpc edge hd 11 with the wifi module and the wedge. When I turn on sky safari, it always indicates that it thinks the scope is pointed at the ground. I set the scope to it's initial polar alignment position with the forks pointed north and the scope at it's index mark. This points the scope tube 90 degrees away from polaris. When I turn on safari it thinks the scope is pointed at the ground and I cannot get the two devices to work together. 

 

Please advise. 

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12 comments

  • 0
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    Keiron Smith

    Hi Jeff, 

    1. What app and version are you using?
    2. What OS?
    3. Are you aligning using the hand controller, or using SkySafari via Celestron WIFi?
    4. Please outline step by step the alignment procedure and connection types used.

    Thanks!

  • 0
    Avatar
    Jeff Weiss

    I am using sky safari pro version 6. I use my Imac to control my telescope. I have sky safari pro on my phone and ipad but they do not seem to have enough processing power to connect and operate the equipment reliably.

     
    I use the celestron wifi dongle. I have it set up with access point. 
     
    I can successfully align and operate my telescope with the Nextstar handset. 
     
    When I try and use skysafari and the celsetron wifi device, I am able to connect the sky safari program to the telescope. It is at this time that I have the telescope on it's index mark with the base roughly polar aligned. 
     
    At this point SkySafari usually thinks the telescope is pointed at the ground somewhere near the northern horizon. If I try and align on a star the program says That the telescope is pointed too far away from where the program thinks that it is and it will not let me align the telescope to the star.
     
    I have reloaded the software on my Imac and it had no effect. 
     
    I have CPWI on my laptop and it seems to work OK. I like the functionality of SkySafari better but I have been unable to find out what it is that I am doing wrong or how to synchronize the SkySafari program to the initial starting position of my telescope.
     
    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my inquiry.
     
  • 0
    Avatar
    Keiron Smith

    Hi Jeff, 

    When you are using Celestron WiFi you must align using the SkySafari app.

    Please look in SkySafari Help > Scope Control Help > Celestron WiFi

    Thanks!

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    This section appears in your instructions in "Scope Control View" for sky safari:

     

    Connect and Align: This button only shows when connecting to a Celestron WiFi telescope. Tapping it will connect and then guide you though an alignment process. The type of alignment can be chosen in the Telescope Setup > Setup and Control settings screen.

    Once you've connected, this button's title will change to Disconnect. Tapping it will end your telescope control session.

    Before tapping the Connect button, make sure you've selected the correct telescope type and communication options in the Settings. Make sure the scope is powered on, and any necessary alignment procedures are completed. Consult your telescope manual for details on the scope's alignment procedure.

    After connecting, the sky chart is centered where SkySafari thinks the scope is pointing, as reported by your telescope. If this is wrong, your telescope is probably not star-aligned correctly.

     

    I take my telescope out of the box and set it up in my yard. I do a rough polar align and set the telescope tube on it's index mark (this is what the manual says to do).  then turn it on with it's wifi dongle in access point mode. 

    I turn on my Mac and open up sky safari. I connect it to the telescope and it thinks I am pointing at the ground. 

    In your last sentence above you say "your telescope is not star-aligned correctly".

    My telescope is not star aligned at all. What is the correct setup procedure to use SkySafari on a Mac when you set up your telescope in a different place each night?

     

    Please explain this to me.

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    This is what is on the Scope control Help page. Nothing about using the app instead of the program on my MAC.

     

    Scope Control Help

    The Scope Control panel is used to connect to your telescope and control it remotely. By default, SkySafari's telescope control uses a the Demo interface. This is a dummy virtual telescope that lets you to use the controls without having a real scope connected. To connect to a real telescope, choose the telescope type and communication parameters in the Scope Setup panel.

    Please note: the telescope controls cannot be used when you are orbiting another object in the solar system. To use them, first return home to Earth. See the Orbit button Help for more information.

    Connecting and Disconnecting

    After selecting your telescope and communication parameters, show the Scope Control panel from the Window menu. The Scope Control view displays the name of the scope's current target object, and a button which lets you connect or disconnect from the scope.

    Connect: This button establishes a connection with your telescope. If you've set up your scope connection using a USB-to-serial adapter, then SkySafari will use a wired serial connection for telescope communication. Otherwise, SkySafari will use Wi-Fi for wireless telescope communication.

    Once you've connected, this button's title will change to "Disconnect"; clicking it will end your telescope control session.

    Before clicking the Connect button, make sure you've selected the correct telescope type and communication options Telescope Setup panel. Make sure the scope is powered on, and any necessary alignment procedures are completed. Consult your telescope manual for details on the scope's alignment procedure.

    After connecting, the sky chart is centered where SkySafari thinks the scope is pointing.

    Slewing and Aligning

    Once you are connected, the Scope Control panel shows the scope's right ascension and declination, and a motion rate slider. To the right are directional arrow buttons for moving the scope while it is connected.

    GoTo/Stop: This button issues a "GoTo" command to your telescope, which will physically slew it to the coordinates of the currently-selected object in the sky chart. To select an object in the sky chart, click on it, or use the Search view.

    While a GoTo is in progress, this button's title changes to "Stop", and pressing it will issue a command to stop the currently-in-progress GoTo. You can use this as an "emergency stop" if the telescope is in danger of hitting something, or if you have accidentally slewed to the wrong object.

    Note that not all telescopes support GoTo commands, and that you cannot GoTo an object which is below the horizon.

    Align: This synchronizes the scope to coordinates of the selected object. The bullseye indicated in the sky chart shows where the telescope thinks it is pointing. If that appears incorrect, the scope and the software must be aligned. To do so:

    1. Physically center the scope on a real object in the sky.

    2. Select that object in the sky chart to make it the current target object.

    3. Click the Align button.

    You can re-align the scope and the software anytime there is a discrepancy between the two.

    Notes on Alignment

    Note: for Celestron NexStar, Orion/SkyWatcher SynScan, iOptron GOTONova, and ServoCAT telescope controllers, clicking the Align button stores the offset between the telescope's reported position and the selected object's position. It subtracts that offset from the telescope's reported position whenever the telescope is within 10 degrees of the object you Aligned on. In other words, SkySafari performs a "local sync" around the alignment target. If you move the telescope to a very different part of the sky, you may want to Align on a target in that part of the sky. Also note that the telescope's RA/Dec reported by SkySafari will differ from the RA/Dec reported by its hand controller (since SkySafari is applying the alignment offset to the telescope's reported position.)

    Note: for encoder-based "Push-To" systems, like the Tangent Instruments BBox, Celestron Astro-Master, JMI NGC-MAX, and Orion Intelliscope, SkySafari now lets you perform a 2-star alignment. This eliminates the need to level your telescope mount base. Simply set up your telescope, point it at the first alignment star, select that star in SkySafari, and click "Align". Repeat the process with a second alignment star, but when given the option, align on that star as the "Second Star". Your encoders should now be aligned to the sky. You can continue to align on additional second stars; but SkySafari only uses the two you most recently aligned on. Make sure your two alignment stars are at least 10 degrees apart; 90 degrees apart is ideal. SkySafari will warn you if your alignment stars are too close together, or if their positions don't match - for example, if you've accidentally selected the wrong alignment star in SkySafari, or you're not really pointing the telescope at that star in the sky.

    SkySafari remembers the telescope's alignment until you quit the app, so you should not have to realign if you disconnect (or are accidentally disconnected) from the encoder control box. However, if you accidentally kick the telescope mount, or otherwise destroy your alignment, you can realign without having to quit SkySafari. To start over, point the telescope at a star, select the same star in SkySafari, and click Align. When given the option, align on the star as the "First Star". That will reset SkySafari's alignment process and start it over with the star you just selected.

    Lock/Unlock: This button keeps the sky chart centered on the telescope's position. Moving the telescope will cause the sky chart to move as well, following the telescope's motion.

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    Jeff Weiss

    This is what is on the celestron wi-fi help page and I cannot find any reference to using the app instead of the program on my MAC.

     

    My MAC has many times the computing power than my phone or ipad. I have tried both of those to align my telescope as well to no avail. I am confused as to why you said that in these help documents it says to use an app instead of a program on a powerful computer.

     

    Celestron Wi-Fi Scope Setup Help

    SkySafari controls compatible Celestron Wi-Fi telescopes. Compatible models include NexStar Evolution models with built-in Wi-Fi, and others that use Celestron's SkyQ Link accessory.

    Use these settings to specify your Celestron Wi-Fi telescope preferences, including slew speeds and tracking.

    You must connect to your telescope's Wi-Fi network before you can access these settings. Make sure your telescope type is set to Celestron Wi-Fi.

    Utilities

    • Battery Status (NexStar Evolution only) - Displays the battery voltage, whether it's discharging or charging, and High, Medium, or Low status.

    • Tray Lighting (NexStar Evolution only) - Adjusts the LED brightness of the accessory tray light. Light can be turned off by sliding all the way to 0.

    • Logo Lighting (NexStar Evolution only) - Adjusts the LED brightness of the Celestron power logo and the Wi-Fi logo. Can be dimmed down or shut off for dark sky locations.

    • Move To Switches (CGE and CGE Pro only) - Moves the telescope to the home switch position.

    • GoTo Home Position (EQ mounts only) - Moves the telescope to the home position.

    • Set Home Position (EQ mounts only) - Sets the telescope home position.

    Tracking Rate

    • Sidereal - Compensates for the rotation of the Earth to keep objects centered in the eyepiece of your telescope. This is the default tracking rate and used for all stars and deep space objects.

    • Lunar - Used for tracking the Moon and when observing the lunar landscape.

    • Solar - Used for tracking the Sun when solar observing with a proper filter.

    • Off - Turns tracking off. The motors in the telescope will stop unless you are slewing.

    • Track RA Only (EQ mounts only) - When EQ alignment is complete, SkySafari will track in both RA and Dec to keep your object centered in the field of view, even if the mount is not perfectly polar aligned. Disable this default setting if you want the mount to track in RA only. Disabling this setting is also recommended if you are imaging with an autoguider.

    Alignment

    • Scope is on Wedge - Use this align method if you have an altazimuth mounted telescope equipped with a wedge. Alignment requires selecting and centering 4 stars, 2 on each side of the meridian.

    • Hibernate Enabled - Allows the telescope alignment to be saved when shutting the telescope off or disconnecting and exiting the app.

    Slewing

    Some telescopes may require limiting the altitude angle to prevent striking the mount. Altazimuth mounts default to a 70° altitude slew limit as some mounts cannot point all the way to zenith. This can be changed manually to set the best slew limit for your telescope. Note that the slew limit does not work until the telescope is aligned with the sky, or the slew limit assumes the telescope is pointing horizontally.

    • Maximum - Sets the maximum (or highest) limit, 0-90°. Use to prevent the telescope from striking the mount when oversized accessories are attached.

    • Minimum - Sets the minimum (or lowest) limit, 0-90°. This setting is useful when trying to avoid obstructed horizons.

    Software RA Limits (for EQ mounts only):

    • RA Minimum - Sets how many degrees approach to the east the mount can slew before stopping. -20° will slew 20° past the meridian.

    • RA Maximum - Sets how many degrees approach to the west the mount can slew before stopping. -20° will slew 20° past the meridian.

    Telescope direction can be reversed up/down and left/right to change the apparent motion of the star in the telescope's eyepiece in the three lowest slew speeds. Reverse Up and Down is default enabled so the star moves in the same direction as the direction button.

    • Reverse Left and Right - Reverses left and right directions in the three lowest slew speeds.

    • Reverse Up and Down - Reverses up and down directions in three lowest slew speeds.

    Anti-Backlash

    All mechanical gears have a certain amount of backlash or play between the gears. This is seen as a delay in the time it takes for the telescope to move after a direction arrow is pressed, especially when changing directions. Anti-backlash compensates for backlash by inputting a value which quickly rewinds the motors just enough to eliminate the play between gears.

    • Altitude (Alt-Az mounts only) - Sets the backlash compensation value for altitude (up/down motion of the telescope), 0-99.

    • Azimuth (Alt-Az mounts only) - Sets the backlash compensation value for azimuth (left/right motion of the telescope), 0-99.

    • RA (EQ mounts only) - Sets the backlash compensation value for right ascension (east/west motion of the telescope), 0-99.

    • Dec (EQ mounts only) - Sets the backlash compensation value for declination (north/south motion of the telescope), 0-99.

    Advanced

    Advanced settings in allow you to adjust other features on your telescope.

    • External Power (NexStar Evolution only) - Set the maximum potential current draw from the power supply. Default is 2.0A for the included power supply. Any setting higher than 2.0 requires a higher capacity power supply which is not included with the telescope. The telescope has built-in fail safes if the External Power setting is incorrectly set, but we recommend always using a suitable power supply for the given setting.

      When used with a higher capacity power supply, this setting allows you to charge the internal battery at the fastest speed while using the telescope, and while optionally charging your smart device from the USB charger.

    • USB Charging (NexStar Evolution only) - Sets the USB charger on the mount to always on or auto. Default is Auto, meaning the charger will shut off to save battery life when the battery is low. On will force the charger to stay on at all times, even when the battery is low.

    • RA Guide Rate - Percentage of sidereal speed for the autoguider 0-99.

    • Dec Guide Rate - Percentage of sidereal speed for the autoguider 0-99.

    • Max Slew Rate Enabled - Allows the max slew speed to be adjusted from default.

    • Max Slew Rate - Increasing speed will draw more current from your power source. Decreasing speed will operate more quietly.

    Go To

    Simply enter the Right Ascension (RA) and Declination (Dec) coordinates to go to a specified area of sky. This is the quickest way to go to a custom object, such as a new comet or object of interest provided by a star chart or online reference.

  • 0
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    Keiron Smith

    I'm sorry, Jeff.  In the iOS and Android versions of SkySafari the following is written:

    When using the Celestron Wi-Fi scope type, it is important that you do not align using the hand controller before you connect.  Doing so will cause the hand controller and SkySafari to fight over who is in control and cause incorrect behavior.

    SO...with that in mind, please try aligning using the app only.  What you need to know is listed under the Celestron Wi-Fi Scope Setup Help (you posted above).

    This has nothing to do with computing power.  

    I will see that the macOS SkySafari Help instructions are updated.

    Thanks for your patience, and let me know how it goes.

     

     

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    I have a couple of thoughts.

    1: I am not using the hand control to align. I am trying to use the program on my MAC to align the telescope and I cannot get it to work.

    2: You say "please try aligning using the app only". Do you mean to use either my android phone or my ipad instead of my MAC? I consider a program to run an a desktop computer and an app to run on a mobile device.

     

    When I try and use my android phone, which is my wifi hotspot also, it is definitely too underpowered to operate your program. It is slow to respond and will not slew properly.

    When I try and use my Ipad to align the telescope (my Ipad is less than 1 year old and works flawlessly) the program flashes back and forth from a picture of the sky to where the app thinks the telescope is pointing. Absolutley usless. 

    If I cannot use my MAC to align the telescope with then you should say so directly. If that is true I have three copies of your software that I cannot use. One for my MAC, one for my Ipad and one for my android phone. None of them work to align my telescope.

    The real question is "How can I get my MAC to align my telescope". 

    I did not buy this program to look at the pretty pictures.

    When I try, the telescope and your program are not in sync and I cannot resync them.

    Can this ever be fixed?

    How do you reset the program to now use the precise location that the telescope is pointing?

  • 0
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    Keiron Smith

    Apologies, Jeff.  I had asked you to outline step by step your alignment procedure:

    Please outline step by step the alignment procedure and connection types used.

    You replied saying you are using Celestron WiFi and aligning successfully using the hand controller:

    I use the celestron wifi dongle. I have it set up with access point. 
    I can successfully align and operate my telescope with the Nextstar handset.
     
    So, this has been the cause of some confusion.
     
    You can use SkySafari on MacOS to align your mount using Celestron WiFi.  
     
    I need to reconsider my next questions, and will reply again tomorrow.
     
    Thanks for your patience.
     
     
     

     

     

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    I mentioned that I can successfully with the handset just to validate that the telescope and it's controls do work. 

    It was my intention to use my MAC and your software to operate my telescope by means of the wifi dongle that celestron sells. They call it the "SkyPortal Wifi Module".

    Each time I try to use SkySafari 6 Pro to align my telescope the very same thing happens.

    The telescope mistakenly thinks I am pointing at the ground even though I am polar aligned and have my forks set on the index marks that the manufacturer provides.

    The first time I try and align on a star the telescope goes in incorrect directions and ends up pointing the completely wrong direction. When I use the slew controls to properly line up the star in the crosshairs the program says that I am too far from where the telescope and program think the scope is pointed and I am unable to align the scope.

    I was a programmer for many years and I am now an engineer. I can understand complicated directions and software. I have written many programs and documentation and trained many people to use the software that I have written. I have a pretty good idea when a software program is not operating properly or to the written directions.

    Please explain to me how to reset the software program so it understands where the telescope is pointed and allows me to align the telescope. That is all I want to know.

     

     

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    Here are some interesting parts of your instructions for the Celestron Wifi telescope:

    Align: This synchronizes the scope to coordinates of the selected object. The bullseye indicated in the sky chart shows where the telescope thinks it is pointing. If that appears incorrect, the scope and the software must be aligned. To do so:

    1. Physically center the scope on a real object in the sky.

    2. Select that object in the sky chart to make it the current target object.

    3. Click the Align button.

    You can re-align the scope and the software anytime there is a discrepancy between the two.

     

                                                          (Why can't I???)

     

    Notes on Alignment

    Note: for Celestron NexStar, Orion/SkyWatcher SynScan, iOptron GOTONova, and ServoCAT telescope controllers, clicking the Align button stores the offset between the telescope's reported position and the selected object's position. It subtracts that offset from the telescope's reported position whenever the telescope is within 10 degrees of the object you Aligned on. In other words, SkySafari performs a "local sync" around the alignment target. If you move the telescope to a very different part of the sky, you may want to Align on a target in that part of the sky. Also note that the telescope's RA/Dec reported by SkySafari will differ from the RA/Dec reported by its hand controller (since SkySafari is applying the alignment offset to the telescope's reported position.)

     

    In this section, your instructions indicate that I should be able to point the telescope at a star and push the align button and the telescope will be re-aligned. It also that the software stores the offset between where the scope is pointing and where the software thinks the telescope is pointing. 

    When I point the telescope and push the align button I get the error that the telescope is too far away from where the software thinks it is pointing and the alignment ends.

    I take my telescope apart every evening and put it away. I re-set it up the next evening. Your software remembers something that I need it to forget. It appears like the software is always either "Hibernating" when you shut it off or "Parking" the scope. In these two scenarios the software remembers where you had the telescope pointed so when you turn it back on you save time in alignment.

    When I put my telescope away at night I do not want it to remember or save anything to do with the prior evenings alignment or any other setting.

    Is this possible or is there a way to reset the software so it forgets where it thinks the scope is pointed and uses its actual position instead of where it thinks the telescope is pointed.

    I have had success aligning the telescope with the Starsense handset and camera, with the Nextstar handset and with the CPWI program. All three of these methods work well and do not need to store or remember anything from the previous setup.

    Each of these applications give you a chance to either park or hibernate the scope when you turn it off at the end of a viewing session.

    For some reason SkySafari has given me fits and I cannot reset it in order to get a good alignment.

    It no longer matters to me. I will remove it from my phone and Ipad and someday hope that you can make the MAC version align without storing any previous settings.

  • 0
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    Jeff Weiss

    This is the proper initial position to start an alignment with my telescope. Forks pointing North, Scope tube pointing South.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lFdOd3mTULdmqUJlWggr5_2GyJvZQ2Yu

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PzsyrN7zs-G_d4-xsLdm3FwX_9WBjjO8

    The second photo shows where SkySafari Pro 6 thinks the scope is pointed.

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