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Does SkySafari 6 Pro Offer An Option To Change The Epoch From JNow To J2000 When Sending Coordinates To An LX200? (Answer: No, The Epoch Scope Is Preset, Determined By The Mount's Expected Protocol)

When i control my telescope from Skysafari, i connect it via an LX200 server running on the Indigo platform (www.cloudmakers.eu). Indigo uses J2000 as epoch. When i set epoch to J2000 in Skysafari using the precession settings, both Indigo and Skysafari do agree on the object positions (RA/DEC) in their catalogues. The telescope reticle is however way off the selected object and i see that the telescope position in Skysafari differs an arcminute or so from that in Indigo. What epoch does skysafari expect over the LX200 interface? Can this be changed to J2000 in some way?

 

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21 comments

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    Keiron Smith

    Johan, 

    Please see Settings > Precession

    Thanks!

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    Johan Bakker

    Nope, unfortunately it is not as simple as that.

    I set the epoch in Skysafari to J2000 using the Settings > Precession.

    After that Indigo and Skaysafari agree on object positions in their catalogues.

    What they disagree about is the actual position of the telescope, e.g, Indigo reports an RA of 8:41:10, Skysafari reports 8:39:47. 

    When i image in Indigo, it is spot on to the object after a plate solve, Skysafari is visually/on screen pointing 1 degree next to the object, even though skysafari has the object position correct in its catalogue.

    Leaving me to believe that Skysafari still expects JNow epoch coordinated on the LX200 interface, even after it has been set to J2000 in Settings > Precession.

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    Keiron Smith

    Johan,

    Do you have an LX200?  Can you connect directly to the scope via USB-to-Serial or using SkyFi 3?  I think you will find SkySafari is spot on.

    You need to confirm the issue is with SkySafari and not LX200 server running on Indigo.

    Thanks! 

  • 0
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    Johan Bakker

    Are you even reading my questions?

    I think Skysafari is expecting JNow coordinates on the LX200 interface, even though in Settings -> Precession the epoch is set to J2000. 

    Can you confirm this is not the case?

     

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    Johan Bakker

    I'm talking about the LX200 Classic mount in Skysafari. 

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    Keiron Smith

    Johan, 

    I can not confirm.  You are saying there is a problem, and perhaps there is.   But, you are running SS6 through a system for which it was not developed.  So, the scope of support is limited.  If you want to use SkySafari with Indigo then consider upgrading to SS7 which supports Indi and Alpaca - and then if there is an issue we can ask the developers to review the issue.

    Thanks! 

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    I payed good money for Skysafari 6 and i'm reporting a potential problem, where all the data i've got points out that Indigo sends a scope position to Skysafari, yet Skysafari reports the scope is pointing at another position. Leaving me to believe there is an issue in Skysafari 6 with epoch conversion. You tell me you haven't confirmed whether the issue is there or not, but perhaps there is a problem, but your'e not even going to look into it and your solution is to spend more money on Skysafari 7. If (and if only if) Skysafari is expecting another epoch on the LX200 interface, than is defined in Settings -> Precession, it is a Skysafari 6 issue which should be looked at and solved if faulty. If there is no issue, i will pursue the issue elsewhere to get it solved. 

    Regards, Johan 

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    Johan Bakker

    And you may want to consider ending your responses with "Thanks!", it is perceived as pretty passive aggressive...

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    Keiron Smith

    Johan, 

    It is not clear the issue is with SkySafari 6.  So, further troubleshooting is required.  And, as I said, your Indigo server configuration is not officially supported for use with SkySafari 6.  As I asked, if you use SkySafari 6 with an officially supported configuration; i.e. USB-to-Serial or SkyFi 3, then do you still encounter any issue?  If so, then we are accountable.  As I said before, SS7 supports Indi and Alpaca, so if you want to configure using Indigo then you need to configure using SS7 because, first, the latest version does officially support the configuration, and, second, developers are only going to release app updates for SS7 at this point.  Sorry, SS6 will not receive any further updates.

    I know you may be disappointed to read what I have put here because, yes, you have paid good money for SS6.  But, please try to understand the limits you can expect regarding support for configurations for which the app was not developed.  SS6 supports LX200 mounts using the traditional USB-to-Serial or SkyFi 3.

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    Dear Keiron,

    I'm using Skysafari with the pre-configured "LX200 Classic' mount, which happens to be implemented as a server in the Indigo platform. I'm asking whether there may be an epoch conversion issue on the interface or not. Rather disappointing indeed, that the only resolution you can give is "we're not going to investigate it, buy Skysafari 7, which may or may not have the issue, but in that case we will investigate it". But ok, let's leave it at that. 

    Regards, Johan

     

     

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    Dean

    Points of observation:

    There is no SS7 for OS X.

    Since this conversation is taking place in the "OS X Apps" support forum section I assume that the Original Poster is using the Mac OS version of SkySafari.

    Ipso facto, SkySafari 7 cannot be a current solution for this issue.

    I feel that this point may have been overlooked while providing support for Mac OS SS6, which is still the current version and I would assume is still actively supported.

    Additionally, this forum section needs to be renamed to "Mac OS Apps". OS X (10) is now ancient history since Mac OS is now up to version 12.

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    Keiron Smith

    SS6 on MacOS is not going to receive updates for issues originating on unsupported telescope configurations (i.e. via INDI).

    We are aware of the popularity of INDI and Alpaca, and so have heavily invested in the development of that functionality for SS7,

    So, let us please focus on what developers can do for you via SS7.

    SS7 for MacOS will be released in mid-late 2022.  SS7 for iOS is presently available.  SS7 for Android is in preliminary beta.

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    My last response on the issue, after that i'll leave it at rest; my question is in no way related to HOW i'm using the LX200 Classic mount configuration in SkySafary. My question is; when i use Settings-> Precession in SkySafari 6 to set the epoch to J2000, is the LX200 interface also using J2000, or is still using JNow for the coordinates sent over the LX200 protocol (which seems to be the case)? 

    Regards, Johan

     

     

     

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    I did your job for you; some protocol sniffing. IC410 has the following RA/DEC coordinates in J2000; "5:22:35/33:30:53". And it has the following JNow coordinates; "5:24:03/33:32:16". I set SkySafari Settings->Precession to J2000 and did a goto to IC410. Looked at the log messages to see the coordinates Skysafari is sending out;

    Mar 21 22:20:02 ZGAstroScope indiboot[30684]: 22:20:02.834571 indigo_server: Mount Agent[worker_thread:480]: 45: 'Sr05:24:03' -> '1'
    Mar 21 22:20:02 ZGAstroScope indiboot[30684]: 22:20:02.848016 indigo_server: Mount Agent[worker_thread:480]: 44: 'Sd+33*32:16' -> '1'

    There you go; even though i set the Skysafari epoch to J2000, it sends out JNow coordinates over the LX200 interface. 

    So, regardless of what i use the LX200 interface for, there is an issue with the epoch used over LX200; it does not conform to the Skysafari settings. 

    Very frustrating you're telling me to either get lost or spend more money, when there is an obvious issue in your product.

    Regards, Johan

  • 0
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    Keiron Smith

    Johan,

    Thank you for providing concrete data regarding the issue you are struggling with.

    I stand corrected, the epoch option in Settings > Precession does not change the command protocol sent to the LX200.

    There is a discussion about this in regards to a Vixen mount here:

    Control of Vixen SXW from Sky Safari

    Bill's relevant reply is as follows "The setting for the epoch (J2000, Now, etc) in SkySafari is for your benefit only.  It has nothing to do with the coordinates we use when talking to the scope.  We know what each mount expects and always convert to that epoch before sending an RA/Dec to the mount."

    So, if SkySafari is sending JNow then, I will suggest, that is what an LX200 mounts expects.

    What do you think?

    Again, SS6 is developed to connect to a traditional LX200 mount with a standard Meade hand controller.

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    I understand from your reply that a choice was made to hard code the epoch per telescope interface. I think it would make your product more versatile if the telescope interfaces would just conform to the epoch settings selected by the user. Alternatively you could have an epoch attribute that can be set in the Telescope setup panel, which by default is set to the one the scope is expecting, but could also be set to an alternative value.

    Kind regards, Johan

     

     

     

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    Keiron Smith

    Johan, 

    Please follow the Announcements forum to be notified of beta testing for SS7 on macOS.

    Announcements

    Please also create a NEW post in the features request forum regarding your epoch option:

    SkySafari | Feature Requests

    Posts can be commented on and Upvoted by the community, showing developers what is of the highest priority.

    Thanks!

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    Cloudmakers provided a fix in Indigo today, to work around the SkySafari 6 issue and released the fix in Beta. They made the epoch used on the LX200 protocol configurable, so i can set it to JNow. Just tested it and it works fine.

    Regards, Johan

     

     

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    Keiron Smith

    An excellent Cloudmakers Indigo update!  And perfect timing!

    Thanks!

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    Johan Bakker

    Dear Keiron,

    The timing of the Cloudmakers fix in Indigo was not accidental, it was on request.

    Regards, Johan

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    Keiron Smith

    Even better!

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