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Why Does The Celestron CPC 925 Using SkyFi 3 and SkySafari 6 Plus Fail To Connection? (Answer: Hand Controller Needs Replacing, But Read On For Many Troubleshooting Tips, Including How To Configure Celestron WiFi Via Access Point Mode)

Hello:
I have been using the SkyFi 3 wifi module successfully with SkySafari 6 Plus and my Celestron NexStar 8SE for well over a year now without issue.  I recently purchased a Celestron CPC 925 scope, which according to your doc should be supported.  However, no matter what scope series I select using SkySafari 6 Plus, I get the same message:  Connection Failure - SkySafari Plus can make a wireless connection to the scope, but the scope is not responding.  Make sure the scope is powered on and connected...etc, etc.  

At first I thought it might be an issue with the scope firmware, but I just used Celestron's Firmware Manager tool to update the CPC handset to the most recent version.  I see the CPC scope mount has a dedicated RS232 aux port labeled "PC"...is there a special RS232 cable connector for the SkyFi module that must be used instead of the mini-USB cable for the Celestron hand controller?

Please help as I rely on your WiFi module and SkySafari for observing...it's an excellent product and sky navigation/GoTo's have been virtually flawless with it.  Thank you!
Roy Abitbol
404.931.9867

24 comments

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    Roy Abitbol

    I wanted to add:  in case this is a cable issue, I ordered a new mini-USB to USB-A cable from Amazon.  I also ordered a Celestron Serial to RS232 cable to try this, as there is a RS232 port labeled "PC" on the CPC mount.  The CPC hand controller has the regular mini-USB port, but maybe to use SkyFi3 the CPC mount needs to be controlled from the PC port?  I'd appreciate a response, but will post my results...thanks!

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    Woody

    Roy,

    You should be able to control your mount using SkyFi-III and SkySafari-6.  I've been controlling my CPC-1100 Deluxe now for around 7 years using versions of SkySafari.

    The way I've done it (up until recently) is through the bottom of the HC.  My HC is an older one with the 4-pin modular port in the bottom of the HC that says RS-232.  So I used the Celestron RS-232 cable specifically made for this, along with a serial to USB converter.  I used a FTDI converter. 

    But you have the newer HC with the mini-USB connector.  So you don't need that RS-232 cable or a serial to USB converter.  Any USB cable with the proper connectors should work.  My newer Celestron NexStar Evolution mount has the newer HC with USB port and that's how I've controlled it with a SkyFi-III.

    For the SkySafari settings I use "Celestron CPC series" and then "Connect via WiFi" (as opposed to Connect via Bluetooth).  That's the one that works for just about any connection to a CPC mount.  By "any" connection I mean RS-232 Serial or Bluetooth.  If you use a Celestron SkyPortal WiFi dongle plugged into one of the CPC's AUX ports, then you use "Celestron WiFi" for your mount setting in SkySafari.  You do NOT use Celestron WiFi with a SkyFi-III.

    You asked the question regarding the "PC" connection on the CPC mount.  That threw me.  I've never used it and forgot it was there.  So I just looked it up on Celestron's site.  Apparently it's for updating CPC mount firmware (although I've always done that through the HC and CFM ), or according to the document I found, that "PC" port connection can also be used to control the mount using Celestron's "NexRemote" software running on a PC.

    As I said, I've never used it and have no idea how it works.  I've always controlled my Celestron mounts through the port on the bottom of the HC (either RS-232 serial for the older HC's, or USB for the newer HC's), or now using a Celestron SkyPortal-WiFi in Access Point WiFi mode (Direct WiFi mode hasn't worked reliably for me), and then the Celestron WiFi mount setting in SkySafari.

    I can't think of any reason you can't connect to a CPC mount using the same USB cable and same SkyFi-III, so long as SkySafari is set to the "Celestron CPC" mount setting.  But perhaps in your panic, you've accidentally changed one of the SkySafari settings -- such as connecting via WiFi or Bluetooth.

    Here are my SkySafari Scope settings:

    Scope Type = Celestron CPC series
    Mount Type = Alt-Az, GoTo
    Communication Settings = Connect via WiFi
    Auto-Detect SkyFi = Checked
    SkyFi Name = I've changed this field

    Common settings:
    Set Time & Location = Checked

    Hope this helps

     

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hi Woody:

    Appreciate your response!  I actually have been using the procedure you described exactly, including all your settings, and I get the Connection Failure message.  The only two differences:  I use the default SkyFi network name, and I left the Set Time & Location box cleared, not checked.  I will try it checked and see if that makes a difference, but I doubt it.

    I was wondering about the PC aux port because the CPC mount seems to be more sophisticated than the NexStar SE one, so I figured there was some firmware in the mount as well.  My only other potential fix might be a new cable, which should be here tomorrow.  As I mentioned in the description, I'm able to use the SkyFi 3 dongle and mini USB cable with my old NexStar 8SE scope without any problem.  It feels like the CPC is behaving differently than the NexStar 8SE, it simply won't connect no matter what combination of settings I use.

    One thing I thought of is uninstalling and reinstalling the SkyFi software, there may be some legacy settings in there that need to be cleared out...will try that later.  If you have any other ideas, let me know.

    BTW, I was looking for a CPC 1100 but I can't find any in stock anywhere...I think you mentioned you've had yours for a while.  You have my respect if you're carrying that thing to observing sites, because the 925 is a beast!  I actually use a baby hip carrier to help carry the thing so I don't hurt my back.  How do you manage the 1100?

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    Woody

    Roy,

    1) If your USB cable still works with your SE mount, then that's probably not the problem.

    2) You mention SkyFi-3 dongle.  That's an odd description of the SkyFi-III device.  In my experience, "dongles" are usually much smaller devices.  So I wonder if we're talking about different things?  My SkyFi-III is about the overall size of a Smart Phone, but thicker.  And it has several connectors on the bottom.

    3) Have you done a complete CFM firmware update on the CPC AND it's HC?  Firmware inside the CPC mount (motor controllers and main board) have to match and be compatible with the firmware in the HC.  You can't mix-and-match.  And that's one of the things CFM does -- it makes sure all the firmware in the mount and HC are not only up-do-date, but are compatible with each other.  So I'm wondering if you're using your SE HC with the CPC mount -- without making sure all the firmware in both mount and HC are the latest and compatible?  Once all the firmware in both your SE mount and CPC mount and HC are up-to-date, they should all "play well" together.  You update all the firmware through the HC and its USB cable.  When everything is plugged in properly, the first thing CFM does is check each component for its current firmware version.  And then it downloads and updates the firmware that's necessary.  I have StarSense on my CPC-1100 Deluxe, so that adds several more layers of firmware (SS HC, SS Camera) and a complete CFM firmware update on my system can take 10 - 15 minutes.

    I might also add that the Celestron HC's contain firmware that works with pretty much all Celestron mounts.  When you plug the HC into the mount and turn mount power ON, the HC communicates with the mount to see which Celestron mount it's connected to.  And then once it knows which mount it's connected to, the HC loads the proper drivers from its internal memory to match the mount it's connected to.  At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

    4) You mention uninstalling and re-installing your "SkyFi software."  Huh?  Maybe you meant updating your SkyFi firmware.  So far as I know, there's no separate SkyFi software running in any device -- such as computer or phone or tablet.  The SkyFi runs on its internal firmware.  And I'm not aware of an update in several years.  But definitely check to make sure your SkyFi-III is indeed running the latest firmware.  In my opinion, if your SE configuration works -- then so should the CPC.  I don't think the SkyFi-III really knows which mount it's connected to.  And that's why you need to set SkySafari's mount settings to the proper mount.

    5)  You're right about the CPC-1100 Deluxe being a beast.  I can no longer lift mine.  It's permanently installed in my mobile observatory.  I have a heavily modified PierTech StarTraveler mobile observatory (7.5 ft. x 10 ft.) and the towing weight is 3,400 lbs.  Seven years ago I was able to lift the scope/mount up onto the pier.  But I'm no longer able to do that.  It either takes me and a friend, or I hitch it up and tow it to Celestron World Headquarters in Torrance, CA for repairs.  I've had to do that twice now for two warranty repairs.

    I just don't know why you're having this problem.  I can (and have in the past) moved my SkyFi-III and one of my StarSense HC's between my CPC and Evolution mounts -- and everything worked just fine.  In fact, with my Evolution mount, I don't even need to change the mount setting in SkySafari.  The Evo mount works fine using the Celestron CPC series mount setting.  The motors and gears and encoders must be the same.

     

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hi Woody:

    Thanks again for getting back!  We're using the same SkyFi 3 unit...I'm in IT, basically we call a "dongle" anything that dangles from a cable :) Also you're correct in that I mistyped SkyFi software when I meant SkySafari 6 Plus.  I meant I may uninstall and reinstall SkySafari on my Android phone to clear out any legacy settings.

    My CPC 925 is new and I'm using the HC that came with it, but I did a complete firmware update using the latest version of the CFM software just in case.  It took about 5 to 10 minutes, about a dozen packages all together.  Thanks for explaining about the mount firmware, I was unclear as to whether CFM took care of that...so assuming you're correct, I should be up to date on HC and mount firmware.

    I read that the SkyFi 3 unit has a reset switch, I may try that as well...will report back.  At least I know this should work eventually.  Do you happen to know if there's an official SkyFi tech support if I need a warranty repair or something?  The ticketing system just routes you to this forum...thanks!

    R

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    Woody

    Roy,

    This is Simulation Curriculum's public forum area.  I believe they have a separate area for formal service tickets.  But usually one of their service techs (Keiron usually) reads these public posts and leaves comments.  Hopefully he'll step in soon.  Sometimes it takes a couple of days.

    In the meantime, it looks to me as if your SkyFi-III and SkySafari-6 on your phone are working just fine -- since they still work perfectly with your SE mount.  The "problem" appears to be something with your new CPC, it's HC, or the CPC drivers in your version of SkySafari.  So if your version of SkySafari doesn't work with CPC mounts, maybe those drivers (or whatever they are) are missing or corrupted.  And hopefully an uninstall and re-install will fix that.  Good luck.  A complete installation of SkySafari-6 Pro takes a long time -- particularly if the installer runs into checksum errors -- as my last two updates did.  For some reason, my last installation on both my Samsung phone and Samsung tablet kept getting checksum errors on one of the big databases -- and the installer just kept trying to install that database over and over -- until it finally worked.  I think installing that one funky database took 30 minutes before it finally worked.  Fortunately I didn't have to do anything -- the installer just kept trying and trying until it finally worked.

    I'm out of ideas.  Nothing wrong with re-setting  your SkyFi-III, but I doubt that will change anything as I it sounds like your SkyFi-III is working fine to me. 

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hello Woody (and/or any of the service techs):

    I have tried reinstalling SkySafari 6 Plus and I have reflashed the SkyFi III firmware (v 1.3.4), and still am having the same problem controlling the CPC mount.  The mount firmware has been updated using CFM.  I am waiting for a new micro USB cable from Amazon as it's possible that the cable I'm using is damaged (not likely, but possible).

    If the new cable doesn't work, I'm wondering if my SkyFi III unit itself might be damaged.  I'm willing to order a new SkyFi III unit to try, but if it doesn't work I'd like to ensure there is a return policy so I'm not out $200 for another unit.  If a new unit does work (proving the old unit is damaged in some way), I'm curious if there would be a credit of some kind applied to the new unit (perhaps not for the whole value, but something).  Thanks!

    Roy

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    Roy Abitbol

    One more update:  I was able to verify tonight that my current SkyFi III unit and cable work just fine with my NexStar 8SE.  I was able to align the scope with the HC, connect to the SkyFi III, and control my NexStar 8SE scope using SkySafari.  However, I am still unable to do this with my new CPC 925.  I have reset the firmware in the CPC scope and updated it with the CFM tool, and I also uninstalled/reinstalled the SkySafari software.  I'm still getting the same error message, so I have a couple of additional questions (if anyone's still out there):

    The CPC scope is behaving almost as if there's something wrong with the mount, even though I can do alignments with the HC just fine (also tested the GoTo function for the HC using SkyTour and it seems fine as well).  Is there any way to analyze the error message coming back from SkySafari to figure out what's wrong?  

    Is there any difference between the iOS and Android versions of SkySafari?  I've been using it with my Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra Android phone, but I do have an iPad and can test that later...maybe that will make a difference?

    Finally, is there any advantage to using the BlueTooth version of SkyFi III (I think it's called SkyBT)?  I see that's an option in SkySafari, I'm willing to give that a try if it's indicated.

    Thanks again!

    Roy

     

     

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    Woody

    Roy,

    I wish somebody from Simulation Curriculum would join this discussion.  Don't know what's taking them so long.

    1) I thought you'd already confirmed that everything (SkyFi-III, USB cable, and SkySafari-6 Android) were all working with your SE mount.  But good to know that they all still do work.  And at least for me, that tells me that the "problem" is with the CPC mount and/or the "Celestron CPC series" setting in your SkySafari settings.  I'm voting for a problem with your new HC or CPC mount.

    2) The SkySafari error message means that your phone and the SkyFi-III are communicating properly, but that the mount isn't responding as it should.  When SkySafari sends a message to the mount, it's not getting any or the proper message back. That could be because the SkySafari mount settings are wrong (as far as I'm concerned, the proper setting would be "Celestron CPC series"), the communications inside the CPC's HC aren't working, or the mount itself has something wrong inside.  But the SkyFi-III is OK.

    If I understand your systems, you have an "old" SE mount (that works) and a new CPC mount.  How about your HC's?  Do you have two HC's?  If you have two HC's, switch them and see what happens.  A Celestron HC is a Celestron HC.  They should be identical (so long as both are the newer models with USB serial connection in the bottom instead of the older RS-232 serial connection).  And you should be able to swap them without having to change any settings.  So try your "old" SE's HC with the CPC mount (don't change anything else) and see what happens.  And same with the new HC that came with the CPC.  Try it with your SE mount and see what happens.

    This could narrow down where the problem is -- HC or mount itself.

    3) So far as I know, there's no difference between SkySafari-6 iOS and SkySafari-6 Android.  But there is a new SkySafari-7 for iOS and there isn't yet a new SkySafari-7 for Android.

    Along these lines, there's also the free Celestron APP called Celestron SkyPortal APP.  But if I'm correct (and I might not be), this new free APP only works with Celestron WiFi -- and NOT SkyFi-III WiFi.  But it's worth a try.  Download the free Celestron SkyPortal APP and see if you can connect.  I don't think you can (unless you get a Celestron SkyPortal WiFi dongle -- which I also have and use), but again it's worth a try.  When I was tracking down problems a couple of years ago, Celestron didn't pay me any attention (they kept saying talk to Simulation Curriculum, SkySafari is their product) until I used their Celestron SkyPortal APP and had the same problems.  Then they realized that the problem was indeed with something Celestron and not SkySafari. 

    Yes, the SkySafari guys wrote Celestron SkyPortal APP for Celestron, but it's considered a Celestron product.  

    4) If you have the new Celestron HC's with a USB connector on the bottom you CAN NOT use Bluetooth!  At least that's my understanding (and I think I tried it and couldn't get it to work).  The SkyBT (which is actually a re-badged Roving Networks RN-270 serial to Bluetooth device) needs a RS-232 serial input, not USB.  The SkyFi-III has both RS-232 serial and USB inputs.  But the SkyBT only has a RS-232 serial input.

    I have mostly the older Celestron HC's with real RS-232 serial ports on the bottom, so I can use the Bluetooth wireless devices (which plug into Celestron's special RS-232 serial cable that has a 4-pin modular plug on the HC end.  So I can use WiFi or Bluetooth.  Another bit of trivia, the iOS versions of SkySafari can NOT use Bluetooth.  iOS devices don't recognize this high-power version of Bluetooth.  The SkyBT and RN-270 use the high-power version of Bluetooth that has a range up to 100m.  As I understand it, iOS only recognizes the low-power version of Bluetooth that phones use.  Or something like that.

    But again, I don't think this is your problem.  Your problem appears to be either the new HC that came with your CPC mount, or something's screwy in your CPC.

    Any chance you can download CPWI on a computer and connect it to your CPC?  It's also free.  My guess is that won't work either as it uses the same USB connection to your HC and mount.  But another advantage to trying CPWI is that it's a Celestron product.  So if it doesn't work either with your CPC, then Celestron will realize that something's wrong with one of their products (HC or CPC mount) and fix it under warranty.

    I hope you have two Celestron NexStar+ HC's so you can narrow down if the communications problem is with the HC or the mount.

    Woody

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    Woody

    Roy,

    Celestron HC's are interchangeable so long as they both have the latest firmware loaded.  So before swapping HC's make sure both your systems (HC's and mounts) have the latest CFM updates.

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hi Woody:

    Thanks again, this is good information and switching the HC is an outstanding idea!  I will try that later and report back.

    I actually do have the Celestron Skyportal WiFi dongle (there's that word again), but I don't think much of it and will be sending it back.  As you said, it works with the SkyPortal software (which is based on SkySafari 6), but the caveat is that you MUST align your scope using the app, not the HC.  The reason I'm a fan of SkyFi III is that it allows you to align your scope using the HC (much easier), then connect with SkySafari for observing later.

    I will also be trying the iOS version of SkySafari later.  I haven't used CPWI but am willing to give that a try as well if necessary.  I also wish I could get someone from Simulation Curriculum on this thread.  As I've reported, the mount seems fine in all other respects...I've already used it a couple of times with the HC and alignment/SkyTour works flawlessly.  Maybe your idea with swapping the HC will pan out...will let you know!

    Roy

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    Keiron Smith

    Roy, Woody, I am reading, and thank YOU Woody for all the assistance you have offered so far.

    Unfortunately, I don't see, obviously, what the issue is.  Here are my thoughts.

    As Woody said, SkyFi 3 works with the Nexstar, so there is nothing wrong with the SkyFi 3 unit.

    The USB-mini cable must have data transfer.  USB-mini cables are not all the same with regards to functionality and quality. Celestron's website says "Mini USB 2.0 cable (male type A to male Mini-B)".  Woody suggested trying to control the scope using CPWI and I think this is a good idea too.  This will tell us if the USB-mini cable is transferring data.  You can use CPWI on a Windows computer with a direct cable connection via Mini USB 2.0 cable (male type A to male Mini-B).  Celestron WiFi is not required for CPWI.

    As Woody, suggested, did you try checking the SkySafari "Set Time & Location" box?  If not, please try with the box checked.

    Roy, you said you have a Celestron WiFi dongle.  Please use it.  See if you can connect and control and align the scope.  You can do a fake star-alignment indoors.  Please be sure to choose the ScopeType "Celestron WiFi" when using the Celestron WiFi dongle.

    Testing on iOS is a good idea too.  Here is redeem code for SkySafari 6 Pro on iOS:

    X6NRNXKL4LTN

    1. Please attach a screenshot of the error message.
    2. Please include info about your device models used.
    3. Please include info about the Android and iOS operating system versions used.
    4. Please include screenshots of all the SkySafari Settings > Telescope option panels.
    5. Please confirm what alignment type you are using via the Celestron hand controller before trying to connect with SkySafari.

    All that said, I'm inclined to point the finger at the USB-mini cable.  We need confirmation the cable is working properly.

    Thanks!

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hi Kieron:

    Thanks for joining the thread!  I am in the process of testing various configurations, taking a break to recharge the SkyFi III unit.  I don't believe it's the cable for two reasons:  1) I have three of them (including a brand new one I bought from Amazon), and 2) I have tested the SkyFi III with my NexStar 8SE and it works perfectly with all cables, so I would assume data transfer is ok on them.

    I will try the SkyAlign alignment indoors on the CPC with the Celestron WiFi dongle, I believe that will work ok as I haven't had problems with the dongle but I will confirm.  As I've said, I'm a big fan of SkyFi because it allows you to use the HC for alignment, which is much easier than the app. But I will test and confirm.

    When I reply I will include screenshots as you requested from the CPC and SkyFi III.  BTW I did try checking the Set Time and Location checkbox (and unchecking), neither worked...same error message for both.  Others in the forums recommend leaving this box unchecked...are you saying it should normally be checked?

    Thanks again...

    Roy

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    Woody

    Roy,

    I suppose this is off-topic for this forum, but too bad.  

    The "secret" for me successfully using the SkyPortal WiFi dongle was changing from the default "Direct WiFi" to the optional "Access Point WiFi".  So instead of my phone connecting directly to the SkyPortal WiFi dongle, it now connects to an intermediate portable self-contained battery operated WiFi router (often called Travel Routers).  And the dongle also connects to the intermediate WiFi router.  Once set, the dongle connects automatically on power-up.  And then I just set my phone's network settings to connect to the portable WiFi router.  So far that configuration has worked perfectly without a single dropped connection.

    Setting up for Access Point WiFi connection is tricky only in that Celestron hasn't published the correct updated instructions yet!  The instructions you'll find from Celestron online DO NOT WORK!  And that's because they changed the configuration process since publishing the instructions.  And they haven't updated them.  I got the current proper instructions off a CN post.  And that guy got them directly from Celestron Technical Support.  So Celestron Tech. Support knows the proper procedure.  Go figure.  But those new instructions worked.

    I might add that I have two SkyPortal WiFi dongles -- the "Gen-2" version and the latest "Gen-3" version.  I'm using the current Gen-3 version.  I haven't tested this configuration with the older Gen-2 dongle yet.  But weather permitting, maybe I'll try that next week.  Celestron claims that the older Gen-2 dongle "should" also work.

    And I'll add further that the Gen-3 dongle I'm currently using that works perfectly is in my all-aluminum mobile observatory!  I setup my control table outside the observatory's open door.  So with all that aluminum siding (a minimum of two thin sheets of solid aluminum sheet separated by about 4mm of dense foam) the only way radio signals can get out of the observatory is through the open door (or I suppose out the open roll-off roof).  Using the default Direct WiFi, I'd get a connection and could control the mount -- until one of the CPC's solid aluminum "arms" got between the dongle and my phone.  Then I'd get dropped -- every time.

    For Access Point WiFi connections, I place the portable WiFi router, up on one of the inside observatory walls (stuck on w/ Velcro).  The router picks up the weak WiFi signal from the dongle, then transmits on its much stronger WiFi signal to my phone.  So far, not a single dropped connection.

    Changing to Access Point WiFi also worked for my NexStar Evolution mount with built-in Celestron WiFi -- which also has a very weak WiFi signal.  I use the exact same portable battery operated WiFi router with this configuration.  And in probably a dozen public outreach events now, it too hasn't ever disconnected either.

    And both the SkyPortal WiFi dongle and the built-in Celestron Wi-Fi in my Evo mount work with Celestron's free SkyPortal APP since they both use "Celestron WiFi."  I only use the SkyPortal APP for testing and convincing Celestron that problems are with their own branded components, and NOT with SkySafari.

     

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    Roy Abitbol

    Hi Woody and Kieron:

    Great news...thanks to Woody's suggestion, I've been able to confirm that the issue was with the CPC hand controller.  Switching the HC from my NexStar 8SE to the CPC 925 solved the problem.  I can now use the HC to align the CPC 925 scope, and connect to SkyFi III from my Android phone and iOS (iPad) and control the scope from SkySafari as I'm used to doing.

    Thanks again to Woody for suggesting I try switching the HC's after pointing out that the HC's between Celestron scopes are interchangeable (and I suppose thanks to Celestron for their design! I suppose I should ask Celestron for a replacement HC for the CPC...do you agree?  There's really no significant issue with the original CPC HC as long as you don't use SkyFi, but I'd really like a fully functional and new HC.  Kieron, I'd be interested in any theories you might have as to what might be wrong with the original CPC HC.

    Woody, I appreciate the additional info about the Celestron SkyPortal wifi dongle, but I never had an issue with it...it's just that you can't use the HC to align the scope if you're using it with SkySafari.  I'm sending it back now that I've got SkyFi III working again.  Thanks again to you both for your help!

    Roy

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    Woody

    Roy,

    Great news!  

    My opinion is that there's something wrong with your new HC's USB/serial connection system -- inside the HC.  The basic HC functions work, but not the USB communications.  My understanding is that it's not repairable and Celestron will just replace the entire HC with a new one.  I'm sure they'll require that you send the bad one back to them.

    That's the good news.  The bad news might be that they're out-of-stock with replacement HC's.  That happened to me years ago with my first StarSense HC.  It died within the first week and they didn't have any replacements in stock at the time.  It took them two months to replace it.

    Regarding aligning with the HC.  I use StarSense so going through the phone and not using the HC works perfectly for me.  On my portable system using an Evo mount, I don't even plug the HC in.  But out of habit, I still leave my SS HC plugged into my CPC mount, even though I let SkySafari handle my SS auto-alignment.  So the SS auto-alignment is handled by my phone, but I can still use the HC to move the mount manually.

    Glad you're now able to use the CPC.  And if Celestron doesn't have any warranty replacement HC's at the moment, you're still good-to-go.

    One last tip regarding "Cablewrap."  When you use a HC, the Cablewrap feature is handled by the HC.  But when you use Celestron WiFi for your wireless connection, Cablewrap is handed in the phone -- and it's NOT in any SkySafari settings.  Instead you get to the Cablewrap feature through the orange "C" logo that shows up on your phone display when you connect via Celestron WiFi.  You tap the orange Celestron logo to get to several alignment settings -- including Cablewrap.  I can't tell you how long it took me to figure that one out.

    Oh, and one more tip regarding Cablewrap.  The off-set you need so that Cablewrap indexes properly has CHANGED with Celestron WiFi.  If you use the HC, the off-set for indexing Cablewrap when the mount is turned ON is the same as it's always been.  But if you connect using Celestron WiFi, the index position has changed.  What Celestron Tech. Support told me is that it's now minus 180° (back up CCW 180°).  I think it used to be more like minus 225°.  Yeehaw!  Thanks Celestron.

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    Roy Abitbol

    Thanks Woody...I'll probably contact Celestron about the warranty replacement, but it's not a big deal as I have a working HC for the CPC.

    I'm not intending to use the Celestron WiFi (or Celestron SkyPortal) for anything moving forward...I'm a SkySafari/SkyFi guy :) it just seems to be faster to align using the HC (I like being able to use the tactile buttons rather than the keypad and I prefer using the two-star alignment using known stars over SkyAlign).  I've also found Celestron SkyTour on the handset to be very good at finding interesting objects that can even be hard to find using SkySafari.  To me it's best to have the use of both the HC and SkySafari on a night with good seeing...you never know what you might find.

    Thanks for the tips on CordWrap...I confess to not really understanding it and it hasn't been a major issue, but it's good to know.

    R

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    Keiron Smith

    Thank Woody, Roy, for sleuthing out the solution.  If we didn't have the extra hand controller it was have been difficult to determine the origin of this issue!

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    Keiron Smith

    Woody, 

    We are still having issue with Roy's setup.  

    1. Can you please confirm what SkySafari app, version and OS you using to successfully connect to and control your CPC 1100?  
    2. Please also confirm whether you are using SkyFi 3 or SkyPortal App?
    3. And if using SkyFi 3, is it a connection via RS232 or USB?
    4. Finally, if using SkyFi 3, what Scope Type option do you select?

    Thanks, Woody, for your continued assistance!

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    Woody

    1) I'm using SkySafari-6 Android on an old Samsung Galaxy S8 and/or a Samsung tablet.  Lately I've been just using the Samsung Android tablet -- running SkySafari-6 for Android.

    2) I've used both SkyFi-3 and SkyPortal WiFi on my CPC-1100 Deluxe.  Using the SkyFi-3 was mostly for testing.  It worked, but I preferred BlueTooth (SkyBT or RN-270).  I'm currently using a SkyPortal WiFi gen-3 dongle plugged into an AUX port of the CPC mount.  The SkyPortal WiFi is set to Access Point instead of Direct WiFi.  I kept getting dropped when in Direct WiFi mode.  I have a HooToo Titan WiFi travel router inside the mobile observatory the CPC mount is in.  The mobile observatory is an all aluminum PierTech SkyTraveler which blocks weak WiFi signals.  But by using the WiFi travel router and SkyPortal WiFi in Access Point mode, I haven't been dropped yet with the phone or tablet being placed about 6 ft. outside the observatory's open door.

    3) When I tested with my SkyFi-3, I used my Celestron StarSense hand-controller's RS-232 serial connection with Celestron's RS-232 cable.  My StarSense HC's are the older ones with real RS-232 connections in the base of the HC. I could try testing the CPC and SkyPortal WiFi (and/or SkyFi-III) with a newer Celestron NexStar+ HC with the USB connection, but I'd have to do it soon as I'm leaving in the RV and don't plan on returning until December.

    4) With all my various wireless connections (Bluetooth via SkyBT or RN-270, WiFi via SkyFi-III or SkyPortal WiFi and Access Point), I use the "Celestron CPC" mount setting in SkySafari-6 for Android.   

    Hope this helps.  I'm confused.  I thought that when Roy switched to his other HC, everything worked.  No?

     

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    Keiron Smith

    Woody, 

    Roy returned his 925 in favour of an 1100 and finds the same issue using the Celestron USB hand controller that shipped with the 1100.

    So, if you have a Celestron USB hand controller available for a quick test, we would appreciate that you can confirm a connection to your 1100 with SkySafari 6 (Android) via SkyFi 3 and a USB-A-to-USB-Mini port cable connection to the Celestron USB controller.

    Do you have a Celestron USB hand controller available?

    Please also tell us what app and version of SS6 are you using on Android?

    Thanks!

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    Woody

    Keiron,

    Thanks for the explanation.  So Roy's "old" HC works (the one that came with his SE mount), but neither new HC (that came with the CPC-9.25 and/or the CPC-1100) works?  Very strange. 

    I do have a newer Celestron NexStar+ HC with USB connection that came with my now 3 year-old NexStar Evolution mount.  It "should" work with my CPC-1100, but I'll need to run the latest CFM on that HC to make sure it has the latest firmware.  Depending on how my RV maintenance chores go today, I might be able to do those tests tomorrow (Thursday).  The CPC-1100 and mobile observatory are currently in long-term storage mode, so it'll take at least an hour to get things ready, update CFM, and run the HC/SkySafari tests.  If I can't get to it tomorrow, I should be able to do them next week.

    FYI.  I did try these tests (SkyFi-III, Evolution mount, NexStar+ HC, USB "A" to mini-A cable, SkySafari-6 Pro for Android on my phone) last month when first trying to help Roy.  I turned the Evo mount's built-in WiFi OFF, plugged in the SkyFi-III, set SkySafari-6 Pro to "Celestron CPC series" and everything worked.  Yes, the Evo is not a CPC mount, but apparently they're similar enough as the same Celestron CPC series mount settings work for me with both mounts.

    My phone is currently running SS-6 Pro for Android 6.8.6.15.  I assume my tablet is running the same.

    I'll post here after testing my CPC-1100 with SkyFi-III and the newer NexStar+ HC w/ USB connection.  It might be tomorrow afternoon or evening, or it might be next week.

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    Woody

    Roy and Keiron,

    OK, I just tested my NexStar+ HC w/ USB connection with my CPC-1100 Deluxe mount with my SkyFi-III with my old Samsung Galaxy S8 phone with SkySafari-6 Pro Android -- and everything works just fine.  As it should.

    When I connect the NexStar+ HC to this mount and go into UTILITIES/VERSIONS on the HC, I get the following:
    HC: NXS 5.31.9102
    MC: 6.16  MC: 6.16

    When I ran CFM on this configuration it said all my firmware was up-to-date.  I downloaded the latest CFM from Celestron last night.

    Today's configuration was:

    NexStar+ HC plugged into the CPC mount using the "Hand Control" port at the base of the mount.  I know from experience and instructions from Celestron that you can plug the HC into this port or any of the AUX ports and they all work the same way. You can even plug in two different Celestron HC's at the same time.  In the past Celestron has had me plug a StarSense HC into the Hand Control port and a NexStar+ HC into an AUX port at the same time.  So there's no problem plugging the HC into the HC port or any of the AUX ports.

    USB "A" to "Mini-A" cable plugged between the HC and SkyFi-III.  The Mini-A side of the cable plugged into the bottom of the HC, the "A" side plugged into the SkyFi-III.

    My old Samsung Galaxy S8 Android phone was connected to my SkyFi-III via WiFi.  In my case I've changed the SkyFi-III's WiFi SSID (Network name) from the default to "Woodyz_SkyFi-III".  So that's the WiFi network I connected the phone to.

    In SkySafari-6 Pro for Android's (latest version as I listed in previous message) Scope Setup, I set Scope Type to "Celestron CPC series".  Then I set Mount Type to "Alt-Az. GoTo."  In Communication Settings I selected the Radio button to "Connect via WiFi."  I also checked "Auto-Detect SkyFi) and SkySafari detected that connection.  In my case it displayed SkyFi Name as "Woodyz_SkyFi-III" and the Port Number as "4030."

    In Common Settings I checked "Set Time & Location."  The CPC-1100 has a built-in GPS and the NexStar+ HC had been set to obtain Time/Date/Location data from GPS.

    Back on SkySafari's main screen I tapped "Scope" and then "Connect."  Within a second the display changed to "Disconnect" and the planetarium sky spun around and synced to the mount's current position.  I pressed the UP button on the SkySafari screen and the mount tilted up.  I pressed the DOWN button and the scope tilted down.  I pressed the LEFT button and the mount panned left.  I pressed the RIGHT button and the mount panned right.  Since all the above indicated that the mount was properly connected, I stopped there.

    Basically, everything worked as I'm used to things working.

    I don't know what to say.  If I understand Roy, his "old" Celestron SE system works perfectly using the same phone, same version of SkySafari, same USB cable, and same SkyFi-III WiFi device. So that tells me all those components are working and communicating as they should.  And last month, when Roy took the SE system's HC and plugged it into his CPC-925 mount, everything worked.  So we narrowed things down to the HC what came with his CPC-925 as the problem.

    Now I understand Roy traded that CPC-925 for a new CPC-1100 -- and once again, the CPC isn't connecting.  I assume that's using the new HC that came with the new CPC-1100.  How about the "old" HC that came with SE mount?  Does it still work on the new CPC-1100?

    If the old HC (that came with the SE mount) worked with the CPC-925 mount, then it should also work with the new CPC-1100 mount.  And if it doesn't, there's a problem with the new CPC-1100.

    At least, that's how I see things.  Having multiple mounts and HC's should make problem-solving much faster, easier, and accurate.  But it seems that Roy is changing mounts and HC's so much -- perhaps everybody is confused.  I have two Celestron mounts (CPC-1100 and Evolution) and FOUR Celestron HC's.  I have the two original NexStar+ HC's that came with each mount, and I have two StarSense HC's for two separate SS systems.  And so I wouldn't get confused, I've labeled each HC.  I suggest Roy do the same.

    Oh, here's one more odd thing I noticed today (and have noticed in the past when initially configuring my "new" SkyWatcher AZ-EQ5 mount with the SkyFi-III.  I don't know if this would make any difference, but it might.

    With nothing else plugged in -- when I plug the USB cable between the HC and the SkyFi-III, the HC's display lights up and says "Initializing."  This happens even if the SkyFi-III is turned OFF.  Somehow power goes from the SkyFi-III's internal battery to the HC -- and is enough to turn the HC on.  So of course, if the HC is connected to the SkyFi-III, the HC is powered up and drawing power from the SkyFi-III's battery -- even if absolutely everything is powered OFF.  So eventually, the SkyFi-III's battery will be completely drawn down to zero -- which isn't good for batteries.

    I'm also wondering if because the HC isn't connected to the mount yet and isn't completing its initialization process, it gets stuck?  For this reason, I don't plug the USB cable into the SkyFi-III until the very last step -- and AFTER the mount has been powered up and the HC has completed its initialization process.

    Keiron, could this be a problem?  And therefore, should the SkyFi-III always be connected last AND after the mount has been powered up?  I'm also wondering if this is a reason some SkyFi-III users have their batteries fail prematurely -- because they leave their SkyFi-III USB plugged in and the HC is drawing the battery down to zero?  My SkyFi-III is many years old and still works perfectly.  But after each use, I completely unplug everything from it.  

    I'm thinking the SkyFi-III designers left out an important diode and that allows power to reverse from the SkyFi-III to other devices plugged into its USB port.  I think a diode in the USB power line would prevent that.

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    Keiron Smith

    Woody, it is my understanding that Roy did try the SE8 hand controller, and it also worked with the 1100.

    Thank you sooooooooooooo much for your assistance troubleshooting this setup - you are a godsend!

    I will wait for Roy to comment more on what progress, if any, he has made.

     

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