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[Scope Control]* Sticky Scope Control Buttons Lead To Runaway Slews Using Celestron WiFi (Solution: Will Be Fixed In A Future App Update)

Recently when using SkySafari Pro 7 with my Celestron Nexstar 4SE with the Celestron SkyPortal Wifi adaptor I found the altitude and azimuth controls would sometimes stick on. This was not related to issues with communication. A second tap on the control stops the motion immediately.

Didn't matter whether I was in Access Point mode or Direct Mode, or the readout speed (moved from 2 per second to 10 per second without any effect).

Telescope firmware was updated to the very latest version. iOS was at latest version on iPhone 14.

Is this intentional that the controls are sticky to allow for long slews or is there a bug?

Date Votes

74 comments

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    Mike Atkins

    @Keiron

    Yes, it's been around for a while, I experienced it with SS6Pro. But, not many users reported it. I've become more familiar with how Not to trigger it as much but, nonetheless, it's there. Release when it's ready, not a moment before.

    For everyone else, development things to know.

    As much as you would like an ETA, don't ask. One won't be given. Builds aren't released until ready, not a moment before.

    I've been involved in development in the past. Sometimes, when you think it's ready, something else rears it ugly little head. Ask me how I know....

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    Keiron Smith

    Mike Atkins

    Just to clarify, you have shared a lot of previous experience using SkyWatcher mounts.  And, this discussion is really about Celestron WiFi connected mounts.  Are you experiencing the SS7 sticky buttons issue with your SkyWatcher mounts as well?

    Thanks for sharing your feedback!

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    Mike Atkins

    I have experienced it with:

    WiFi (built-in or dongle) and BT connection

    SkyWatcher and Orion mounts the most, Alt/Az and EQ mounts, Celestron, Meade, and a couple others, too. I've had access to a variety....

    Many of the various controls/scopes can be traced back to Synta, there is a lot of similarities between so many.

    The weirdest part is I have seen nights where there is just no cooperation across apps, nights where everything works perfectly, and everything in between.

    My personal feeling is whatever the mount or whoever the user the issues may all be related in some way.

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    Keiron Smith

    Does anyone else have this sticky buttons issue using other mounts aide from Celestron?  Anyone not using Celestron WiFi (aside from Mike) also having this issue with runaway slews?

    Thanks!

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    Dale Page

    Don’t know about other physical mounts but I can confirm that it is easily replicated using the simulated mount.

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    Keiron Smith

    Dale Page

    You are referring to the SS7 > Settings > Telescope > Preset > Demo?

    Thanks!

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    Keiron Smith

    I can see it happening on the Demo mode too.  So, that is good news.  Will be very helpful for the developers.

    Does anyone have this issue on Android?  Or, only iOS?

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    Keiron Smith

    I see Mike Atkins reported the issue on Android as well.  Thanks!  Anyone else for Android?

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    Mike Atkins

    I have been experiencing it on Android. Across versions and devices.

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    Mike Atkins

    BTW, I personally couldn't reproduce it with Demo mode.....

    FWIW.....

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    Michael Haase

    The slew buttons stick IF AND ONLY IF I slide my touch at least 1mm on the button. This is completely reproducible.
    In SkySafari Pro 7.3.5 I have the sticky button behavior on Celestron WiFi, SkyWatcher SynScanLink, and Demo Interface.
    I do not see the problem in SkyPortal.
    This is on iOS 17.5.1, both iPad and iPhone.

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    David Wheelock

    Keiron Smith

    I'm not exactly certain what it is that you want me to test in SkyPortal.

    Yes, it definitely happens every time I use SkyPortal, every session, though not on every keystroke.  It happens every 2nd, 3rd or 4th keystroke of the direction/slew buttons.  So, it might seem "manageable" EXCEPT for when you're trying to align.  When you're trying to align, you're looking through the spotting scope or the eyepiece instead of at the app screen.  So, it might take 7, 8, 9, 10 presses of the direction keys to put the red dot pointer or crosshairs on the alignment star.  Then, when you're getting close to the alignment star and the runaway slew happens it moves the pointer way past the target star and you HAVE TO START THE ALIGNMENT ON THAT STAR ALL OVER AGAIN.  You might have to restart the alignment several times before you can get the alignment to complete properly.  Runaway slew is the cause of this.

    I have discovered a reproducible action that originates with Android One UI 6.1 that appears to be the cause of this new problem in SkyPortal.  It's the much-hated, new side-swipe to go Back gesture.  I'll elaborate in a separate comment.

    Sorry, I've never used Sky Safari nor do I want to pay to subscribe to it just for testing purposes.  So, I have nothing to offer you there.

    My environment is:

    • Celestron NexStar 4SE with latest firmware updates.  HC:NXS 5.34.2065 MC:5.20 5.20
    • Celestron SkyPortal WiFi Module. Purchased May 2023
    • Celestron SkyPortal App, Version: 3.5.1.2
    • Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra, OS: One UI 6.1, Installed April 2024.
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    Jcole

    We use SkySafari 6 Pro (iPad Mini) on 4 of our telescopes at Lowell Observatory in the Giovale Open Deck Observatory. Three are used on A-P GTO mounts (one GTO 1200 and two 1600, all CP-4) and one is used on a Nexus DSC/ServoCat driven 32" Dob. All of these scopes have had the runaway slews at random times on more than numerous occasions. I just saw the reports of a sliding finger on the touch control possibly being responsible. I have no data on this as the telescopes are operated by a varying crew of 15-20 operators every night for the last 4+ years and none has reported noticing the finger slide. I always wrote this issue off to gremlins, wifi issues or a dirty touchscreen on the iPads.

    It would be really helpful to have this fixed. I'm glad the team is working on it.

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    David Wheelock

    Keiron Smith

    Here's what I discovered during testing today about the interaction between Android One UI 6.1 and SkyPortal software.  I have found reproducible gestures which trigger this problem that were introduced with One UI 6.1.

    FYI: I'm a GIS specialist, systems analyst and occasional programmer with 35 years of experience, so I have some skills at finding the causes of  quirky behavior in software.  I've been using the Celestron NexStar 4SE since 2022, my first automated telescope.  I got the WIFI dongle in May 2023 and have used SkyPortal many times to successfully and easily align my telescope until this problem arose about a month ago with the installation of Android One UI 6.1.

    In normal operation, in the SkyPortal app, to use a direction button, you press down on the button with your finger to start a slew and raise your finger to stop the slew.  All well and good.  So, pressing down on a button sends a start-slew signal to the mount and raising your finger sends a stop-slew signal.  It's important to note that the slew buttons are on the sides of the SkyPortal app screen along the edge of the display.

    Now let's look at Android One UI 6.1.  This new OS radically changed the placement of the OS navigation buttons from the norm had been in place for over a decade.  For our case here, 6.1 changed the GO BACK functionality from a swipe-up or button on the lower right of the display to a swipe-in from anyplace along either the left or right edge of the display.  To use this new GO BACK feature, you place your finger down on either the left or right edge of the display screen and swipe horizontally away from the side.

    You've probably already figured out the problem by this point.

    So, here's where SkyPortal and One UI 6.1 interact to cause the runaway slew.  The activation areas for the SkyPortal direction buttons and the One UI 6.1 GO BACK function are both in the same place on the screen.  So, when you press your finger down on the slew button it sends the start-slew signal to the mount and the slew starts.  However, your finger is also within the activation area for the One UI 6.1 GO BACK function.  So, if your finger moves even a little bit to the side while pressing on the display, then it also triggers the One UI GO BACK function.  This, in turn, intercepts the finger-up signal and prevents it from reaching the SkyPortal app, so that SkyPortal doesn't send the stop-slew signal when you raise your finger and the runaway slew begins. 

    I can reproduce this problem issue easily.  As long as I am extremely careful not to allow my finger to wiggle to the side when pressing a slew button then the runaway slew will not happen.  However, the slightest wiggle will trigger the GO BACK function and cause a runaway slew, spoiling my alignment.

    So this problem is caused by One UI 6.1 blocking SkyPortal from receiving essential touch-screen input.

    This affects not just SkyPortal, but many, many other apps and there are many frustrated and angry users on the Internet who are unhappy with the new One UI 6.1 navigation and how it breaks other software apps, as well.  There are third party apps which claim to restore the previous navigation functionality.  I haven't tested any of those, yet.

    Here are two possible solutions:  

    • Move the SkyPortal direction buttons away from the side of the display. 
    • Create a single, rosette-style navigation button where the user might put their finger on the center of the navigation button and then slide their finger up-down-left-right to move the scope.  The farther the users moves their finger the faster the scope will go.  I thing that would be really intuitive and much easier to do in the dark while you're looking at something else like the spotting scope

    Please let me know if you need me to test anything specific.  I'd be happy to test a beta version if you'd like me to.

    My environment is:

    • Celestron NexStar 4SE with latest firmware updates.  HC:NXS 5.34.2065 MC:5.20 5.20
    • Celestron SkyPortal WiFi Module. Purchased May 2023
    • Celestron SkyPortal App, Version: 3.5.1.2
    • Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra, OS: One UI 6.1, Installed April 2024.
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    David Wheelock

    Keiron Smith

    So, in my case, above, we see that the problem is caused by some other software interfering with SkyPortal's ability to send the stop-slew signal to the telescope mount.  In looking online and above in this thread, I see that there are many other telescopes and software apps that have runaway slew issues. 

    I wonder how many of those issues have a similar cause.

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    Mike Atkins

    David Wheelock, that is a very interesting thought you have. It makes me think and gives me an idea.

    I have been on the Beta for SS7PRO since release. I previously used SS6PRO as well. Beta test devices have been the Google Pixel 3XL on Android 10, the OnePlus 8 Pro on Android 11, the Galaxy S22 Ultra on Android 12 (upgraded to 13) and now the Galaxy S23 Ultra on Android 14/OneUI 6.1(upgraded from 13/OneUI 6.0).

    All of the above have had the sticky slewing issue. All of the above also use gestures for navigation. IPhone also uses gesture navigation. The area of the screen that uses that feature is the same area that the slewing buttons use. What you say makes a great deal of sense. I too used to develop, custom Android OS was my thing but it's been many years (got tired of ungrateful users).

    Keiron Smith and David Wheelock, tell me what you think of this idea/thought.

    Instead of trying to get the big cell/tablet makers or Android OS developers to change something in the OS/Launcher, good luck with that, for a small group of users. I would also say programming to get around an OS/Launcher function isn't exactly easy, either. 

    What is the opinion on relocation of the slewing control buttons to a different area? Obviously the middle is a no go, I don't even want to imagine the user complaints. The top wouldn't be good because of pull down settings and notifications, but maybe there is an area where it would work.

    To me it seems like it would be the "nicest" option from a programming point. If you wanted to do a "limited group test" with that idea, I would have no problem "driving it like I stole it". It could give an idea if it's even worth looking at without freaking out the masses.

    Thoughts?

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    David Wheelock

    Keiron Smith and Mike Atkins

    Mike, you asked for thoughts on how to relocate the navigation buttons.  I edited my long post above several times so you might not have seen my suggestion for a circular, rosette-style navigation button, like a joystick.  It wouldn't need to be large or intrusive.  It could be put right above the current Scope bar.  It could be small and then when pressed could enlarge and light up to indicate to the user that it's Active.  Then the user could roll/slide their finger up/down/left/right to slew the scope.  The greater the roll/slide of the finger, the faster the telescope would move.  This would also be much easier and more intuitive in the dark and when you must be looking elsewhere and not at your mobile device.

    Keiron, short of redesigning the SkyPortal interface as described above, you could programmatically fix this, as well.  Instead of waiting for the OS to notify the SkyPortal app that the finger has been lifted from the button, the SkyPortal software could actively poll the OS to see if the finger is still on the button as a safety check. That way in the event of an interruption by the GO BACK function above, the software would still sense that the finger is lifted and stop the scroll.  Is there a way to do that?

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    Keiron Smith

    Developers are grateful for all this additional troubleshooting and reporting David Wheelock Mike Atkins Michael Haase Jcole.

    Question for David, you said:

    This affects not just SkyPortal, but many, many other apps and there are many frustrated and angry users on the Internet who are unhappy with the new One UI 6.1 navigation and how it breaks other software apps, as well. There are third party apps which claim to restore the previous navigation functionality. I haven't tested any of those, yet.

    Can you link me to an app that claims to resolve this issue?


    Question for JCole, you said: 

    I just saw the reports of a sliding finger on the touch control possibly being responsible. I have no data on this as the telescopes are operated by a varying crew of 15-20 operators every night for the last 4+ years and none has reported noticing the finger slide. I always wrote this issue off to gremlins, wifi issues or a dirty touchscreen on the iPads.

    JCole, can you please ask your team to confirm the sliding finger is the origin of the issue.

     

    Can anyone reproduce this on both SkySafari 7 AND SkyPortal app on iOS or iPadOS? 

    I'd like to clarify whether this is something specific to SS7 or can affect both apps on iOS/iPadOS.  If the issue is only on SS7 then it suggests the origin could be tied to an app update.  But, this discussion has evolved to suggest the issue is related to OS gesture controls.  It's not clear why SS7 would be affected and not SkyPortal app.

    Thanks everyone - this is very helpful!

     

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    Dale Page

    I am an iOS user both iPad and iPhone.  The effect is completely repeatable using the demo interface or my Celestron Astro-Fi mount on SkySafari 7 (slight movement of finger on slew button, or quick tap, locks the button) but I can't replicate it on SkyPortal.  SkyPortal seems to completely unaffected in my experience.

    Happy to test any pre-release.

    Dale

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    Michael Haase

    I double checked SkyPortal 3.5.0.13 on iOS with my Celestron Evolution mount.  I cannot make the slew buttons stick.

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    David Wheelock

    Keiron Smith

    Regarding apps which claim to restore the previous One UI functionality, there's one called NavStar that has many positive comments.  However, it's not in my Google App store, so Samsung may be blocking it or it may not have been updated for One UI 6.1.  So, I haven't been able to test that.

    Here are some links:

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    Keiron Smith

    Thank you, David!

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    Jcole

    Keiron,

    Hi. Two things today.

    1) I spent an hour trying to get a stuck slew on two different telescopes with no success. I was using single slews, dual Dec and RA having both motors run at once, I kept my fingers still, tried double tapping to start the slew, started the slew then slid my control finger a mm or so, started the slews with a sliding finger, etc., every combo I could think of. I did maybe a hundred operations with each telescope and got no run-a-way slews.

    2) Talking with the telescope supervisor from last night, I was telling him about Sky Safari working on the issue and he told me they had one last night. He wasn't running the telescope but was there and got no details. They are used to it now.

    The two mounts I was testing on today were:

    1) A-P 1600 GTO, CP-4 controller, iPad Mini 4, iOS software ver. 15.8.2, Sky Safari, 6 Pro ver. 6.8.5.2

    2) A-P 1100 GTO, CP-4 controller, iPad Mini 6, iOS ver. 17.5.1, Sky Safari 6 Pro ver. 6.8.5.2

    3) Last night's run-a-way slew was on a 32" StarStructure dob, using Stellar Cat, Nexus DSC Pro, iPad Mini 4, iOS ver. 15.8.2, Sky Safari 6 Pro ver. 6.8.5.2

    I'll follow up with any useful info we may gather.

    Thanks,

    Jim

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    Mike Atkins

    @Keiron

    I tried adjusting the Edge Touch using the App offered by Samsung. It's part of the Good Lock app. After trying a few different settings I reverted back to default. The edge zone adjustment area can't be made large enough to be of any use.

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    Keiron Smith

    Jcole - while there are sticky button reports on SS6, it is nowhere near the frequency as reported for SS7.  Thank you for the specs and reports for SS6!

    Mike Atkins - thank you for exploring that possibility.

    If we don't have anyone who can reproduce this issue on SkyPortal on iOS then it is possible, although the reports read the same, the origin of the issues are different for sticky buttons on iOS vs sticky buttons on Android.

    Still, is there anyone out there who can reproduce the sticky buttons issue using SkyPortal on iOS/iPadOS?

    Thanks everyone!

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    Keiron Smith

    We have released a beta, 7.3.6 (1111) with a fix for the sticky buttons issue.

    If you are not currently an iOS beta-tester but would like to be please read and follow the instructions here:

    Beta Testing SkySafari 7 (iOS Only) - Read This To Participate!

    This is your chance to test the current fix and provide feedback before developers sign-off on it.

    This fix is only for iOS at this time.

    Thanks! 

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    Mike Atkins

    Man, I got excited for a moment. Then I saw this update is only for IOS. I'm an Android dude. Lol

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    Keiron Smith

    We have a couple of beta testers looking at this now.  But we could use more!  Please take the time to test the current fix via the beta, so developers can be sure this fix is good to go.

    Thanks everyone!

    Sorry, Mike and Android users (for now).

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    Dale Page

    Happy to do so. Just going over to the appropriate channel to request access.

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    Dale Page

    Have responded via TestFlight. Summary: Beta looks good across demo and Celestron Astro-Fi in both access point and direct connect mode using iPad and iPhone.

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