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[UX Issue] How To Check Whether Daily Data Is Downloading Correctly? (Answer: Confirm The Files Downloaded To The Sky Data Folder)

Hi,

there is a strange behavior of SN8 because there are no Data File updates at all.

I've deactivated "Automatically Download Data".

After starting SN8 Pro Plus I go to Help -> Update Data Files...


After that i get a message that no data was downloaded and my files are up to date.

Then I fire up SkySafari 6 Pro and go to "Update Minor Body Orbit Data" and there are updates all the time.

Example:

I've selected in both SN8 and SkySafari 6 in Solar System satellites a Magnitude Limit of 10,0.

In SS6 there are a bunch of satellites but in SN8 there isn't a single satellite.

Oliver

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7 comments

  • 0
    Avatar
    Poison

    Is there something I must do to get my issue answered?

    SN8 won't download any data files, is this a bug or normal?

  • 0
    Avatar
    Poison

    Hi,

    I want to ask for a refund as it seems that I won‘t get an answer to my issue.

    Also I complain how features are advertised and what is reality. 

     

    1.  I‘m forced to use many cloud services as anybody want to monetize these in the one or other way. LiveSky is one of them and advertised as „sync it all“ service. Every cloud sync app out there will sync all my settings (or options) if I whish to but that is not true for LiveSky: https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360023164334-How-Do-I-Sync-Two-SkySafari-Apps-Using-LiveSky-com-Answer-Read-On-

    2.  SN8 is advertised as „best-in-class telescope control“. However, this is not true - at least from a Mac point of view. In fact all free astronomy apps with telescope control have much more native drivers: Cartes du Ciel, KStars, PHD to name just a few. My question what changed telescope wise from 7 to 8 is still unanswered. https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360022112433-Best-in-class-telescope-control-experience- 

     

    Maybe one day I‘ll come back, but only when all is true what‘s advertised and when I‘m sure that someone send a short reply when having an issue. 

     

    All the best,

    Oliver

  • 0
    Avatar
    Keiron Smith

    Hi Oliver,

    Please look in:

    /Users/<YourUserName>/Library/Application Support/Simulation Curriculum/Starry Night 8 Prefs/Sky Data/ 

    • Satellites.txt
    • Asteroids.txt
    • Comets.txt

    Do you have these files?

    This is where this type of downloaded data is saved.

    You can rename or delete these files.  Then prompt SN8 to download the data again.  And, if everything it working correctly it will download new files.

    Please try this and let me know what you find.

    Regarding LiveSky I think you should at least log into the website LiveSky.com and review the "Remote Data Backup/Management & Cloud Sync Service" we have built for our Starry Night and SkySafari family.

    • LiveSky backup and cloud sync service is FREE of charge.  
    • You can sync Starry Night 8 and SkySafari 6 across any number of OS and devices - a change in one is a change to all.  Is that not a great value add?
    • Observations, Observing Lists, Observing Sessions, Equipment, Observing Sites, FOV Indicators - all synced across all SN8 and SS6, across all OS and devices/computers.

    This was one the most requested feature/services that our community has asked for over the last couple of years.  And here we have delivered it.

    I understand you expected more, to be able to sync other things like star label options, but you have to keep in mind already, first the massive size of this development project to begin with:

    • LiveSky now unifies two different astronomy code frameworks - Starry Night and SkySafari were developed independently from one another.
    • We cannot, with the initial release, seek to sync every little detail between Starry Night 8 and SkySafari 6; options with labels, colours, etc, are just not a high priority, and would probably require a massive amount of work.

    We have to look at where are time is best spent.  There is only so much developer time available.  The company is small.  We have to choose carefully where we invest our time.  Syncing label/font options is not one of them, at this time.

    I don't really see how we have failed, as you say, to deliver a service that is on par with the marketing.  But, you are entitled to draw your own conclusions, of course.

    Regarding the telescope control, I don't understand how Cartes du Ciel, KStars, PHD have "much more native drivers".  Specifically for macOS, all the drivers have been written by Tim Debenedictis - the original developer of SkySafari.  Tim is an extraordinary mind, a planetary scientist, a computer scientist, and to this day he regularly helps to launch satellite projects into space on NASA rockets.  That is to day, he knows what he is doing.  

    On Mac, Starry Night 7/8 uses all the same telescope drivers (written by Tim) that are used in SkySafari 4/5/6.  And, on Mac, using Starry Night 7/8 or SkySafari 6 you can control just about every single scope on the market.  In addition, we offer this through an extensive ecosystem of wireless telescope control hardware including SkyFi 3, SkyWire, SkyBT, Celestron WiFi modules.  And, we regularly update the drivers to account for new telescopes and 3rd party wireless devices release on the market.

    So, again, I don't see how we have failed deliver on the marketing.  Do Cartes du Ciel, KStars, PHD offer anything like that?  I don't see how we fail to be less native on Mac.

    But, again, you are of course entitled to your point of view.  And, we do appreciate all the feedback received.

    If you would still like a refund we can arrange one for you.

    Thanks!  

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • 0
    Avatar
    Keiron Smith

    Also, apologies for the slow reply to your query.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Poison

    Hello Keiron,

    thank you for answering my questions.

    ---

    Please look in:

    /Users/<YourUserName>/Library/Application Support/Simulation Curriculum/Starry Night 8 Prefs/Sky Data/ 

    • Satellites.txt
    • Asteroids.txt
    • Comets.txt

    Do you have these files?

    ---

    Yes, they are all there - date modified is 10.01.19.

    I deleted all three files as you suggested and new data was downloaded finally.

    Very strange, I will try tomorrow again and let you know if new data is available for me.

     

    ---

    • We cannot, with the initial release, seek to sync every little detail between Starry Night 8 and SkySafari 6; options with labels, colours, etc, are just not a high priority, and would probably require a massive amount of work.

    ---

    I'm on computers since the 80s and I know that an initial release will not have everything (one) user wants.

    However, you promote LiveSky as „sync it all“ service and it is not - yet. From *my* understanding a "sync it all" service gives the user the choice and I want to have the choice to sync my settings (options) if I want to do so. Both, SN8 and SS6 can save my settings (options) in a single file. Now I want to have synced this file between SS6 iPad and SS6 Mac so I have the same label, magnitudes, comets settings on both devices - if I wish to sync them.

    ---

    I don't really see how we have failed, as you say, to deliver a service that is on par with the marketing.  But, you are entitled to draw your own conclusions, of course.

    ---

    If you had chosen your promo text a tad different my expectations weren't so high in a initial release. 

    ---

    Regarding the telescope control, I don't understand how Cartes du Ciel, KStars, PHD have "much more native drivers".  Specifically for macOS, all the drivers have been written by Tim Debenedictis - the original developer of SkySafari.  Tim is an extraordinary mind, a planetary scientist, a computer scientist, and to this day he regularly helps to launch satellite projects into space on NASA rockets.  That is to day, he knows what he is doing.  

    ---

    Unfortunately I hadn't time testing the telescope control. But it is true CdC, KStars, PHD have much more native drivers: https://indilib.org/devices/telescopes.html

    So you advertise SN8 as „best-in-class telescope control“ and that is not true even if the drivers are coded by a computer scientist.

    ---

    And, we regularly update the drivers to account for new telescopes and 3rd party wireless devices release on the market.

    ---

    Asking frequently for new mounts to add (SS since version 4 and SN8 since version 7) but get always the same answer: not possible now. Today I own a 10Micro GM1000HPS and of course it *will work* with LX200 commands. But I would prefer a native command protocol and that should not a big deal: copy & rename the LX200 driver to 10Micron and change the specific commands. Well, this is what I'm guessing as I'm no programmer.

    And to be clear that is all my point of view.

    Almost all users out there, even those with a 10Micron mount, will be happy users. I was upset when I figured out that there is a big difference (for me) between what's advertised and what's delivered. 

    I'll keep SN8 for now, just because I never ever asked any company for a complete refund at all. And after getting a response I will continue to support you.

    Sorry for any inconvenience but maybe I was expecting to much in this initial release.

    Looking forward to the first update.

    All the best,

    Oliver

  • 0
    Avatar
    Keiron Smith

    Thanks, Oliver, for your feedback.  All is welcome, of course.

    I see now what you meant regarding "more native drivers" for macOS.  You were referring to the number of mounts that are supported on macOS.

    I can't say if/when native support for your 10Micron mount could be implemented.  But please explain this to me.  You said:

    "copy & rename the LX200 driver to 10Micron and change the specific commands."

    What does "change the specific commands" entail?  Please be detailed and specific in your reply.

    Thanks!

  • 0
    Avatar
    Poison

    ---

    Please look in:

    /Users/<YourUserName>/Library/Application Support/Simulation Curriculum/Starry Night 8 Prefs/Sky Data/ 

    • Satellites.txt
    • Asteroids.txt
    • Comets.txt

    Do you have these files?

    ---

    Yes, they are all there - date modified is 10.01.19.

    I deleted all three files as you suggested and new data was downloaded finally.

    Very strange, I will try tomorrow again and let you know if new data is available for me.

    ---

     

    Tried today to download new data files, but it's the same behavior like explained above. SN8 tells me that I'm up to date. 

    So I renamed the data files as suggested in Application Support/Simulation Curriculum/Starry Night 8 Prefs/Sky Data/ to _old and tried again. New files will download but they are different from the old ones. (same size, different data): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6rp8gejs9o7d0sp/AAC3eISknBjS9qhOkftzCSKMa?dl=0

    ---

     

    I can't say if/when native support for your 10Micron mount could be implemented.  But please explain this to me.  You said:

    "copy & rename the LX200 driver to 10Micron and change the specific commands."

    What does "change the specific commands" entail?  Please be detailed and specific in your reply.

    ---

     

    Please have a look at this thread: https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360014548674-Add-10micron-Mounts-To-List-Of-Supported-ScopeTypes-Addressing-Slew-Rate-Issue-With-Current-LX200-Protocol-

    and especially to Stefan R Benz post from August 14, 2018 09:42:

    Useful settings for a 10u mount would be (they would work greatly for me):

    Rate 1 - Guiding Rate: ":RG1#" would set the slew rate to 1x
    Rate 2 - Centering Rate: ":RC0#" would set the slew rate to 16x
    Rate 3 - Finding Rate: ":RC1#" would set the slew rate to 64x
    Rate 4 - Slewing Rate: ":RS2#" would set the slew rate to 600x (2.5 degrees/sec)

    Is this something that could be implemented in Sky Safari?

     

    At least from a users perspective this seems not to be much of a challenge for a programmer to change this:

    For Meade specifically we send:

    Rate 1 - Guiding Rate:   ":RG#"

    Rate 2 - Centering Rate:   ":RC#"

    Rate 3 - Finding Rate:   ":RM#"

    Rate 4 - Slewing Rate:   ":RS#"

     

    To this:

    Rate 1 - Guiding Rate: ":RG1#" would set the slew rate to 1x
    Rate 2 - Centering Rate: ":RC0#" would set the slew rate to 16x
    Rate 3 - Finding Rate: ":RC1#" would set the slew rate to 64x
    Rate 4 - Slewing Rate: ":RS2#" would set the slew rate to 600x (2.5 degrees/sec)

     

    So I suggested to copy and rename the LX200 driver to 10Micro and simply change these values.

     

    All the best,

    Oliver

     

     

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